On Nov 25, 2019 10:09am, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Terry Roati:

Hello Michiel,

 MvdV> If you say so. But if there are indeed a "lot" of sysops running a
 MvdV> BBS with users, there must be an even greater "lot" of users. Where

I did not say there were a lot of users :)

I have 11 new users log in and upgrade themselves this year, about half of
those are sysops who want to look around, a couple play games and the rest I
don't really know what they do.

 MvdV> are they? I don't carry all the echos, but I don't see a "lot" of
 MvdV> users. In the last couple of years, I have only seen two. Tim

I don't see many users using the fidonet echos as you say, I accept that and
use it as a sysop. Maybe there users in the high traffic areas.

 MvdV> If these "lot" of users do not actively participate in Fidonet, what
 MvdV> relevance do they have for Fidonet?

Nothing for Fidonet but something for the BBS.

 MvdV> A thousand? You really had over a THOUSAND users? As in a one with
 MvdV> three zeros? How many of those were real lasting participants? How
 MvdV> many of them just logged in once or twice to never be seen again? Was
 MvdV> the user data base cleared after a period of non activity or did
 MvdV> those "users" remain in the data base forever?

When I ran a 2.5 node BBS in the Philippines, I had over 1000 registered
callers when I shut down the BBS due to my work situation. User base was
cleared of new users who didn't upgrade themselves only.

 MvdV> absence. You apparently missed the Fidonews coup. It triggered the
 MvdV> birth of the Fidoweb and with the Fidoweb Fidonet finally killed top
 MvdV> down control of echomail. So much for the plus side. On the minus
 MvdV> side there is the dramatic decline in number of participants and

Maybe it was a big deal when it happened, nothing to get excited about now.

 MvdV> volume of echomail content. A conservative estimate is that there are
 MvdV> less than 200 active participants left in Fidonet. It should come to
 MvdV> no surprise that most of the echos on the so called "backbone" are
 MvdV> dead. Most of the echos that remain are below critical mass, Not
 MvdV> enough participants to keep the conversation going. It is only a
 MvdV> handful of echos that have real traffic. Like this one. There is
 MvdV> hardly any echomail content not elating to Fdionet itself. Ir was

Very true. I rarely see any moderators do any moderating which is another sign
on how bad things are. It would be nice to see at least the NO traffic areas
removed.

 MvdV> decades ago that I stopped asking around in Fdionet when f.e. I had a
 MvdV> problem with my car. Just not enough espert knowledge around to be of
 MvdV> use. I go to the forum dedicated to the make and model of my car and
 MvdV> voila there is where the expertise is. In my native language... So
 MvdV> much for moving echos...

Yes it was very useful, now it's replaced by youtube and online forums.

 MvdV> Moving files? What files other than fido dedicated files such as
 MvdV> Fidonews and the nodelist. The irony is that what made it affordable
 MvdV> to move files around the world - The InterNet - also made it
 MvdV> superflous. If I need a driver for my graphic card, it is much
 MvdV> quicker and effective to search the InterNet than waiting for someone
 MvdV> in Fido to dig it up...

Agree.

 MvdV> Yes, Fidonet has changed. It has become a shipping company without
 MvdV> passengers and without cargo. There are just the ships and the crews.
 MvdV> We keep the ships going because we like to keep the ships going. But
 MvdV> that's just it.

Yep, if your tired you can jump overboard :)

 MvdV> My guess is that most of those sysops running a Fidonet node with a
 MvdV> BBS will wholeheartedly disagree with your theorem that they may as
 MvdV> well be points. Me included.

I said Fidonet node without a BBS.

1  Overview

This document establishes the policy for sysops who are members of the
FidoNet organization of electronic bulletin board systems.

 MvdV> That is just laying another link for echos not on the "backbone". It
 MvdV> is not the Fidoweb.

OK, what is it then?

 MvdV> "Uplink" is an outdated concept. In the Fidoweb there are no
 MvdV> "uplinks" and "downlinks". In the web there are just links.

And yet if those links want certain echos or files they must still get them
from another node whose may not be a link or they cannot get all the echos or
files.

 MvdV> "Many" as in the same order of magnitude as the ones supporting IPv6?

Last I looked, there were a total of 81 IPv6 nodes in Fidonet, I would say
there a lot more than 200 Fidonet BBS still online.

 MvdV> Then just hope that when your provider makes the switch, you won't
 MvdV> sudddenly find your IPv4 behind CGNAT. Because then you will be in
 MvdV> the position of only discovering the roof is leaking when the rain
 MvdV> seison has started...

The way IPv6 is being progressed in Australia, I may be dead by then and not
need to worry about it :)

There are only 2 Australian nodes showing they have IPv6 (Native) at present,
I really hope IPv6 progresses faster.



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