Hi Bob



 RM> My only disagreement with ET is that it could cheapen human

 RM> life in some cases



 BL>   How did we get from organs transplants to euthanasia? I love the way

 BL> you say: "I value the sanctity of *my* grief above a human
life" and

 BL> without even changing thongs, you take the high ground on euthanasia

 BL> and the cheapness of human life... as if I'm the one who puts no value

 BL> on human LIFE... and I am happy to let some poor bastard DIE of kidney

 BL> failure so I can have a bit of a cry and let perfectly good bits rot

 BL> in the ground. Oh, yair... human life is sacred.



Well put; there are definite flaws in my argument. But as I pointed

out to Roddles (who seems to have temporarily retired his dog for

this one), I'm not sure what shape my grief would take, as I've

never been close to a sudden death (the closest i got was to my

favourite aunt who died of lung cancer cos she smoked, that cured

me of smoking for life, but I was quite young and callous then).

Most likely I'd dotherightthing, and willingly let my misfortune

become someone's hope.



 RM> "You sick old bastard, why don't you stop annoying us and

 RM> leeching my hard earned money away from my kids? Go kill

 RM> yourself! After all, it's legal now!" Add to that the line

 RM> "Your liver is history, but someone might live longer with your

 RM> heart or kidneys, and you get no say in that. Do something

 RM> useful for once - bugger off and die."



 BL>   If you can't see the clear difference between claiming organs from

 BL> a dead and unrecoverable body, and a live one you are a very sick man

 BL> and I'm glad you're not a surgeon... or Doctor Death. Even Dr Mengeles

 BL> could tell the difference between dead bodies and live ones. He

 BL> devoted his life to it.



*I* can tell the difference. My argument is that there are some

that can't.



 RM> I'm in favour of euthanasia, but I think the conditions

 RM> attached will need very careful consideration. But I digress:



 BL>   Just a little... like whee! Let's fly to the Moon while we're here.

 BL> Organ transplants and euthanasia? Yair, same thing!



 BL> You are getting death mixed up with life! Dead is gone... you

 BL> ought to be ashamed of yourself! You'd rather let a perfectly

 BL> good set of organs rot and swell, turn green and stink,

 BL> underground in a box while the rest of your sweet daughter

 BL> turned corrupt with them, than let another human being use the

 BL> kidneys to live a life, or the corneas to see, or heart lung

 BL> and liver to give a full life to nothing but pain?



 RM> The benefit to the living is obvious, I agree wholeheartedly.

 RM> But asking me for her organs 10 seconds after she dies? What

 RM> planet are you from??



 BL>   I am suggesting that we *don't* ask you. Or even tell you. I am

 BL> suggesting that the law gives the surgeons first choice of anything

 BL> they like in dead bodies, and arrange things appropriately.



That puts a subtle sort of value on a corpse, which might just

outweigh the value of the barely alive near-corpse. It's the dividing

line I'm worried about - this makes it a bit more mushy. I tend to

agree with you, but legislating (apologies for the obscenity) the

dividing line will be messy.



 BL>   Have you ever seen a dead body in a coffin? It may as well be an

 BL> empty shell... because it *IS*. They rip the guts out. If the body dies

 BL> without a doctor in attendance there is an automatic autopsy and all

 BL> the bits are put in bottles! The law dictates that... whether the

 BL> "owners" of the dead body like it or not. Stiff shit. 
How is taking

 BL> the bits for transplants any different?



The coffin is hours or days later. The request for organs is much

quicker.



 RM> It's easy to discuss coldly when we're not involved, but it

 RM> gets different when things get personal. I offer as evidence

 RM> your uncharacteristic lack of response to my recent abortion of

 RM> a poem.



 BL>   Don't tell me about personal until you've buried a couple for

 BL> yourself.



That's exactly what I'm saying! I *don't know* how I'd react!



--- PPoint 1.88