Hello David,

 NA>>> Show me, fucknuts, where in P4 it states you have freedom of speech.

 LL>> Every sysop is lord and master over his/her own system.

 DD> And every other lord and master is not obliged to allow your system to
 DD> communicate with theirs.

That would be a disservice to those who use their system.

 LL>> A legal contract must be signed (and preferably dated) by all
 LL>> parties.  Usually two, being the norm.  Who or what are the parties,
 LL>> and who signed the document?

 LL>> It's a simple question.

 LL>> Show me who signed that piece of cyberjunk, if you can.

 DD> The obligation comes from the party your node is trying to connect to. If
 DD> they don't want you connecting then you have no right to connect.

Did the node one is trying to connect with sign that piece of
cyberjunk?  If so, please show his/her signature.

 DD> Even in this day of IP nodes fire-walling out other nodes has been an
 DD> oft-used practice (and may again when a certain party is resurrected)

It is one thing to use an unsigned document as some kind of guideline.
Quite another to insist it is binding on all sysops and sysop wannabes.

Michiel van der Vlist insists on all sysops following "the rules" -
whatever those rules may be.  He also has often stated his dislike
and distaste for P4, for reasons of his own.

 DD> [...]

 LL>> This unsigned document was never passed/ratified by any zone.
 LL>> In fact, the only vote that was taken was in zone 2, where sysops
 LL>> unanimously *rejected* it.

 DD> And yet they submit to its technical requirements ... or they cannot
 DD> connect.

Just because some technical requirements for making this network
work are noted in P4 does not make the document legally binding on
anyone.

 LL>> And yet it is stated in P4 that wannabe sysops are compelled to
 LL>> swear a loyalty oath to that piece of cyberjunk in order to become
 LL>> a full-fledged sysop!  What a crock of holy baloney!

 DD> If that is the requirement of the NC you're applying to then you have to
 DD> comply of they will not list you.

In Germany people used to have to swear a loyalty oath to Hitler
in order to survive.  Should sysops have to do the same in order to
remain nodelisted?  Should applicants be forced to do so in order
to appease the Hitler in charge of Fidonet?

That is what P4 says applicants have to do in order to even be
considered.  Please tell me that makes sense.

 DD> There is no legal requirement for them to do so ... (well, not in this
 DD> country, your country's fucked up legal system may differ).

I live in TrumpLand, which hardly qualifies as a country of any kind.

 LL>> What that means is you have no legitimate authority to act
 LL>> in any capacity as a representative for other sysops in Fidonet.
 LL>> None at all.

 DD> And no obligation to list your system or communicate with it.

Thank God Trump lives in the Twitterverse rather than Fidonet.

 DD> Fidonet is about co-operation.

Cooperative anarchy.  That is what Tom Jennings called it.

 DD> Have you heard of this concept?

Hey.  I give credit where credit is due.  Tom Jennings said it first.

 DD> Your either co-operate with the others or you find you're limited to your
 DD> own sand pit and no more.

Tom Jennings did not say either/or.

He stated, quite clearly, cooperative anarchy.

That is two words.

 LL>> You see, all authority/power is vested in individual sysops.
 LL>> And to date, they still maintain the right to refuse to allow
 LL>> any and all others to usurp their own power/authority.

 DD> And those others can exert their right/powers not to allow their systems
to
 DD> communicate with yours.

It is not either/or.

The term is cooperative anarchy.

cooperative - willing to work with others.

anarchy - a social structure without government or law and order.

Put the two together and what do you have?  Fidonet!

 LL>> See how that works?

 DD> See how real life works?

Like a charm.

 LL>> Gosh.  I am one smart fucknut.

 DD> A legend in your own mind.

The one and only.

 LL>> David D's definition stands unchanged.

 DD> But only on OUR OWN systems. We have no obligation to allow others to
 DD> connect with our little empires.

But oh so much more fun to play with everybody's toys rather
than just your own!

--Lee

-- 
Big Or Small We Lay Them All

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