Hello David,

 LL>>>> The question I am asking is -

 LL>>>> Who is a nodelisted sysop?

 DD>>> Any SYSOP who is LISTED in the NODElist.

 LL>> And what, pray tell, are the qualifications to become listed
 LL>> in the nodelist?  Where can I find these "qualifications"?

 DD> This is like pulling teeth. It is laid out very explicitly on Pol4.

Not at all.  Really hazy on the details.

 LL>>>> Do points qualify as such?  What about folks who log on as "guests"
 LL>>>> on a web-based browser?  Do they also qualify as nodelisted sysops?

 DD>>> Nope - not unless they are LISTed in the NODElist.

 LL>> Again, what are the qualifications?  Do you know?  Do you even
 LL>> have the foggiest idea?

 DD> I used to know it verbatim when I was getting listed ... in the mid-80's.
I
 DD> must admit that the memories are a little foggy these days.

I keep a copy available offline, just in case the web crashes
and can never be resurrected.

 LL>> How many lists are there?

 DD> One for each zone.

The accuracy of each being highly questionable.

 LL>> Can I list myself on my own private list?  Would that work?

 DD> Nope. To be a nodelisted Fidonet node one needs to be listed in the
Fidonet
 DD> nodelist.

Having an entry in the Fidonet nodelist does not make it accurate.

 LL>> Four zones, thousands of individual lists, and only god knows LL>how many
 DD> master nodelists ...

 DD> Four.

Plus one master nodelist.

Or one could say one nodelist consisting of four parts.

That makes it either one, four, or five.

 DD> [...]

 LL>>>> Nothing more, nothing less.

 DD>>> And to actually become LISTed in the NODElist. Until then one has
 DD>> merely applied.

 LL>> That is not what P4 says.
 LL>> The only thing it states is for an individual to demonstrate
 LL>> the ability to send and receive netmail.  Section 2.2

 DD> Using FTN...

And yet not all are required to show such expertise ...

 LL>> Nodelist clerks take things from there, as the individual
 LL>> has already done his/her part.

 DD> P4 says that you must demonstrate that skill by sending a netmail to a NC
-
 DD> and be able to receive one back.

It is not dependent on what P4 says or does not say.  The only thing
an individual needs to do in order to obtain a node is demonstrate the
ability to send and receive netmail.  Once that is done, nothing else
is required.

 LL>> Points do not have to apply to become nodelisted.  And yet they
 LL>> are considered as being sysops.  Even if they do not have a clue
 LL>> as to how to send/receive netmail.

 DD> A Sysop is a System Operator. If you operate your home computer system you
 DD> are a SysOp - but not necessarily a nodelisted one.

Nodelist clerks keep and maintain a nodelist.  Some are more
glorified than others, but all are just nodelist clerks regardless
of title.

Individual sysops who wish to do nothing more than play in Fidonet
without taking on any more responsibilities can do just that.

So why have distinctions at all between nodelisted sysops and sysops?
Why should nodelisted sysops have any more "rights" than other sysops?

 DD> A point is a private arrangement between a point and a host - nothing
 DD> officially to do with Fidonet. To Fidonet they are but users on/of the
 DD> host's system.

And yet points are considered as being nodelisted sysops.
Which negates the whole point of being a nodelisted sysop.

 LL>> Ward Dossche has affirmed this, even before he staked his own
 LL>> claim of being IC.  I'll take his word for it, as every individual
 LL>> has his own definition as to what constitutes a sysop.

 LL>> And then there are those who use other means to access Fidonet,
 LL>> without ever having to bother with being a point.  Even without
 LL>> actually being listed in the nodelist, they are considered as
 LL>> being sysops.  Why is that?

 DD> Could it be that they Operate a System? Being a Sysop does not make one
 DD> nodelisted.

BBS-In-A-Box is or was an easy to use system.  Any idiot with half
a brain could set it up in less than a day.  And that was for those
who were slow.

Today things have dumbed down where folks can use an app on android.

 LL>> Perhaps there are no real qualifications.  Except for the want
 LL>> to call oneself a sysop.

 DD> Yet to be nodelisted in Fidonet the SysOp must observe other technical
 DD> requirements.

That explains why Trump uses Twitter rather than Fidonet.

 LL>>>> Now.  Who, or what, should a send a netmail to?

 DD>>> All fully explained in Policy4 (no, I cannot quote the para/verse
 LL>> number).

 LL>> Section 2.2 hardly explains anything at all pertaining to how
 LL>> to obtain a node.  Nothing specific, or mandatory.

 DD> How to "obtain a node number" is the specific mandatory requirements.

Mandatory?  I think not.

According to Janis Kracht (remember her?) nothing is required at all.
Just answer "Not Sure" and let her figure it all out for you.

http://www.filegate.net/zone1/bnbform.html


See how easy that is?  Just fill in the blanks, and just
answer "Not Sure" when in doubt.  It really is that simple.


 DD> 

 DD> 2.2  How to obtain a node number

Yep.  That's the proper section.  :)

 DD> You must first obtain a current nodelist so that you can send mail.  You
do
 DD> not need a node number to send mail, but you must have one in order for
 DD> others to send mail to you.

Let's see.  There are four of them.  Eenie, Meanie, Minie, Moe ...

[..]

 DD> The message you send must include at least the following information:

 DD>       1) Your name.

Which can mean whatever name one wishes to go by.

 DD>       2) Your voice telephone number

Optional, according to Janis Kracht.

 DD>       3) The name of your system.

Optional, according to Janis Kracht.

 DD>       4) The city and state where your system is located.

Optional, according to Janis Kracht.

 DD>       5) The phone number to be used when calling your system.

Optional, according to Janis Kracht.

 DD>       6) Your hours of operation, netmail and BBS.

Optional, according to Janis Kracht.

 DD>       7) The maximum baud rate you can support.

Optional, according to Janis Kracht.

 DD>       8) The type of mailer software and modem you are using.

Optional, according to Janis Kracht.

 DD> Your coordinator may contact you for additional information.

IOW, none of it matters, as "your coordinator" may contact you
for additional information.  Whatever additional information that
might be.

 DD> All information submitted will be kept confidential and will not be
supplied
 DD> to anyone except the person who assumes the coordinator position at the
 DD> resignation of the current coordinator.

And easily found online using google as your very best friend.

 DD> You must indicate that you have read, and agree to abide by, this document
 DD> and all the current policies of FidoNet.

Loyalty oath mandated by unsigned authors of P4, which was never
passed/ratified by any zone.

 DD> Please allow at least two weeks for a node number request to be processed.
 DD> If you send your request to a Regional Coordinator, it may forwarded to
the
 DD> appropriate Network Coordinator.

 DD> 

Since the document itself is not valid, it has no legitimacy.

 DD> I think the procedure is laid out quite clearly. Which bit/s are you
having
 DD> difficulty understanding?

It is unsigned.  It has never been passed/ratified by any zone.
It was unanimously rejected in zone 2, the only zone where a vote
took place.  That's for starters.

--Lee

-- 
As Good As It Looks

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