RB> So, let's set it straight for once and for all. Let's get
RB> the FACTS straight,  because from my point of view, most of
RB> you are less interested in the facts  here, and just
RB> disregard what I am saying as a lie or fabrication. 
The facts aren't (by me) in question for the most part.
Its the conclusions you draw from the facts.  Here's a
fact and a conclusion. FACT: Ice cream sales increase
when the mean outside temperature goes up.  CONCLUSION:
Higher ice cream sales cause higher mean outside
temperatures.
Now the fact is correct, it can be proven by looking at
the amount of ice cream sold per day or month and the
mean temperature of that day or month.
But the conclusion is wrong.
RB> Contention: Law enforcement in the United States is
RB> institutionally corrupt,  aimed primarily against
RB> minorities, the lower classes and political dissidents. 
This is a conclusion which I will argue is not
supported buy the facts you site.
RB> (1) In nearly every aspect of law enforcement, minorities
RB> and the poor are  disproportionately affected. Black men are
Only if you look at "low" or non-white collar crime.
Over 70% of the people arrested and/or convicted of
embezzlement, insider trading, etc. are white.  Using
your conclusion law enforcement in relation to white
collar crime is racist because there are very few
blacks arrested for it.
RB> incarcerated at a rate 8 times that  of white men, even
RB> though they are clearly a minority in the general 
Which has nothing to do with law enforcement.
Incarceration is out of the hands of the cops, its up
to the judge or jury.  If two people are arrested for
and found guilty of the same crime one could be locked
up and the other given "community service".  The
arresting officer has very little, if any at all, say
in this.
RB> population. Blacks are 4 times as likely to be arrested for
RB> drugs, even though  whites use drugs at the same rate or
But the proportion of drug DEALERS is different.  It
has been shown time and time again that most white
middle class people don't buy their drugs from another
white middle class person.  When they do buy from a
WMCP it is not done on a street corner "market" but
usually in a car or house.
RB> jailed at least once before the age of 35. Blacks are 10 
RB> times more likely to be shot at by police than whites are.
Because currently the majority of violent crime is
committed in the "black" neighborhoods.  In the past
three months there have been about five multiple
shootings in Nashville and in all five all the victims
AND shooters have been black.  AFAIK, of the 20+ people
shot in Nashville none of them have been white.  Is
that the fault of the police?  I don't want to get into
what is the reason for it only the fact that the police
are not to blame.
RB> While this does not  suggest that all cops are racists, it
RB> shows that there is an institutionalized  racism that
RB> permeates the nation's police departments. [Sources: Report
Here is another bad conclusion.  What if I said that is
shows that blacks are unable to control themselves or
genically inclined to commit crimes?  Then you would be
screaming that I'm a racist but I could back up the
statement with the same facts you are using to say that
the law enforcement community is racist.
RB> (2) The FBI, with co-operation of state and local police
RB> departments, has  operated an illegal program nicknamed
RB> COINTELPRO, or Counter-Intelligence  Division, or CID. The
RB> target of this program has been primarily black social 
RB> activists conducting legal political dissent, but many other
RB> groups of people  have been targeted also. The scope of this
Yes they have but as you point out they did not focus
exclusively on blacks so your argument falls flat.  For
one thing they did the same thing to the KKK, the ANP
which are in no way black organizations.  The
government/law enforcement also rounded up and locked
away thousands of American citizens for no other reason
than their ethnic background.  But surprise these were
not blacks but Asians in the 1940's.
RB> (3) There is widespread dissatisfaction with police
RB> activities in poor, ethnic  neighborhoods. While the mass
Is this because the police are arresting too many
people or too few?  Is the crime rate too high or too
low?  Are they dissatisfied with the fact that there
are drug dealers on the street corner and they can not
walk to and from the bus stop w/o being mugged once a
month?
RB> These are my three main arguments. Any one of them will
RB> stand alone as proof of 
RB> widespread police corruption. I have presented the facts. I
RB> can present more.  The question is: can anyone else on this
RB> echo?
Again you HAVE presented the FACTS and they can't be
argued (at least the numbers).  The only thing is you
are making bad assumptions and conclusions.
As I stated above I could use theses facts to "prove"
several conclusions.  I could be say that they show
that living in a poor neighborhood causes you to commit
crimes.  Or that blacks are more prone to crime.  Or
poor neighborhoods are so crime ridden that the police
can not keep up.  Or the more money you make the less
prone to be a criminal you are.
                      Remember:  Freedom isn't Free!
--- timEd-B11
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