wrote:

>> If faith needs an object, then the phrase "place faith in"
>> makes no sense.
>>
> ???????  Is it a blind spot with you?  Is it hidden or is it blocked?
> Your logic or reasonability is, to be kind, faulty.

So you think that if something is too difficult for you
to understand then it must be illogical?  That's not what
most people use the word "illogical" for. (And the 50 students
to whom I'm teaching logic to this semester 1. would disagree
that my logic is faulty and 2. know tons more about logic than
you do.)

It should be clear that it is a flat contradiction when you
assert:

1.  Faith needs an object in order to exist.

and

2.  Faith is self-existant, so that it need no object,
   but when one finds a worthy object, one has a pile
   of faith (which up to now has no object) which he
   can now place into that worthy object.

On one hand you say that a person can't just have
a disembodied "trust", but must, instead "trust
something".  On the other hand, you talk as if a
person had a handful of "trust" which he can
place hither and thither as the mood strikes him.

Now _that's_ illogical.


>> > Bart, the rest of your rebuttal is illogical.  One must first
> conceive
>> > a thing before one can move toward it.  One is not saved simply by
>> > turning away.  One must also turn toward.
>>
>> One is saved because Christ moves.
>
> Christ died for all men but it is clear that not all men respond to
> His offer of salvation.  So it is clear that there must be something
> more.

But who says that the "something more" is a commandment-keeping,
works-righteous "motion" in the directino of God?  (Answer:
the Pharisees and all their gat.)

Christians believe that the "something more" is the action
of the Holy Spirit.


> This conclusion is almost laughable if it wasn't for being so obtuse.
> How many years and how many posts have I defended sola fide and sola
> gratia?

The point here is that you are not consistant.  You give
lip service to these concepts, but then you state doctrines
which flatly contradict them.  If you weren't so illogical,
this would bother you.

Bart

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