Bart Goddard wrote:
> Darkman wrote:
>
> > lsenders wrote:
> >> Faith is never blind.  Blind faith is an oxymoron.
> >> ..
>
> Hebrews 11:1  Now faith is the substance of things hoped for,
>   the evidence of things not seen.
>
> This totally contradicts what Loren said.

No it doesn't.  It confirms it.  "THINGS hoped for."  There is an
object of faith.  You cannot have an object unless there is an
acKNOWledgement.

> As usual, Scripture
> is not his rule and norm for faith, but only his bizarre
> imagination.
>
Rom. 8:24 For in hope we have been saved, but hope that is seen is not
hope; for why does one also hope for what he sees?
Rom. 8:25 But if we hope for what we do not see, with perseverance we
wait eagerly for it.


If we consult all the scriptural teaching, we will come to an
understanding that 1)  hope involves that which is not yet, but that 2)
it is based upon that which is already.  This is the already/not yet
aspect of faith.  We know the promises of God and we have been given
enlightenment of the Spirit and have Him living within us revealing the
Truth.

To read the rest of Heb 11 we see that faith is based upon some
revealed facet of God, esp His promises.  "Faith without works is
dead."  Why is that.  Because the external reveals the already internal
reality.  If true faith is indeed present, then it will be manifest
externally.  But external exhibition cannot take place prior to the
internal reality.  (Rom 3:10ff)  It is not until God comes into the
life of the convert and regenerates his inclination of the will that
the convert can then convert, repent, turn toward God.  Turning toward
the True God who is there, requires that we first have a proper image
of who He is.  To have an improper image of God is the root of
idolatry.  The external image, whether it be a wooden statue or brand
new shiny car, always comes after the inward inclination toward that
which is not God.
>
> > Perhaps there is a better way to say it than Blind Faith.
>
> Rev. Coffin said something to the effect that we don't
> have "blind faith", but that we "trust without reservation."
> "Blind faith" has some bad connotations, but the Hebrews
> verse says specifically that the things faith hopes for
> are _not seen_.  After all, who has seen God?  And yet
> we have faith He is there.
>
But you may hope for things not yet seen, but that does not equate to
say that we hope for things not yet known.  How can you hope for that
which is not yet known?  We hope in those things promised and revealed.
Hope is based upon knowing.

Again, the internal preceeds the external.  Why do you continue to
debate this fact?

((( s.r.c.b-s is a moderated group.  All posts are approved by a moderator. )))
(((   Read http://srcbs.org for details about this group BEFORE you post.   )))
---
þ RIMEGate(tm)/RGXPost V1.14 at BBSWORLD * Info{at}bbsworld.com

---
 * RIMEGate(tm)V10.2áÿ* RelayNet(tm) NNTP Gateway * MoonDog BBS
 * RgateImp.MoonDog.BBS at 1/15/05 8:17:01 PM