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| subject: | Re: Once Saved Always Saved |
> > Unfortunately, such disastrously wrong doctrine is all too common. Back to the basics. Those who state their position as above are those who hold to the position that man is truly free in his will (Position #1). Those who hold to the OSAS position believe that men are not free (Position #2). Next, "free" must be given a definition in the context of the argument. In the context, "Free" pertains only to whether or not a man can, on his own, turn to God without any further movement or empowerment by God. Those who hold to #1 maintain that man is not irredeemably bad but is capable of self improvement When sin begins in a child it is entirely the result of temptation toward selfishness arising out of a particular circumstance. Basically, this view is in a quasi alignment with BF Skinner, who was an advocate of environmental determinism, in that they would declare that if you could constantly modify the circumstances, the child would never sin. Pragmatically, #1 views Satan on the one side casting a vote against salvation, God on the other side casting his vote in favor of salvation but man must break the tie. God simply does not interfere with man's "free-will." Man must make up his own mind and make his own decision for even God can not make it for him. So why is #1 so appealing? Well it seems to give a more acceptable answer to the problem of evil at first glance. #2 maintains that God's decree ordained evil whereas #1 holds that God merely permitted it. #1 seems to protect any impugning of God's reputation. Also #1 seem more to align itself with God's attribute of love, portraying a God who is in the process of saving as many people as He can without violating the human will. #1 teaches further that God works in the heart, pleading with man to come to acceptance of the offer of salvation, but never determines the end. But lets see if we can illustrate #1 in everyday terms. Let's begin by imaging that I am a master auto mechanic in my tow truck and I am driving along the highway and per chance come upon a man (Mr. Z) who has just pulled over on the side of the road due to a flat tire. I pull over and watch the man pull out his jack, loosen his tire, jacks up the car and pull the flat tire off. But just at that moment he sees that there is a fluid leak under his car so he lays down and scoots under to inspect it. At that very moment the jack fails and the car falls on the man. Now there I am with my tow truck. I could hook up my wench and lift the car up off of the man. But that this would interfere with the freewill choice of the man to crawl under his car, I just stand there and hope that he can lift the car up off the ground and at the same time, push him out from beneath the weight. I can justify my inactivity by saying that I didn't ordain the failure of the jack. In fact, of his own free-will, the man chose to crawl under the car. I didn't ordain it, I just permitted it even after warning the man of his impending doom. Now the question is, does this absolve me of responsibility? I think most would say, No. So lets bring this to bear on how God operates with men. God created man. He knows precisely the weight of the car, the position of the jack, the movement of air with each passing car or truck. He also knew of the placement of piece of metal that dropped off of Mr. X's car as it fell on the highway. He knew that Mr. X would be driving that day on that highway and that that piece of metal would fall off and come to rest precisely where Mr. Z's front left tire would run over it causing a blow out. He also knew that Mr. A, driving his 18 wheel truck would drop his cigarette lighter just as he was coming up on Mr. Z's road side blow out and that in bending over to retrieve it would swerve dangerously close to that side of the road and in doing so, would cause such a rush of wind that the car would slip off its jack. Now God could have easily arranged a sudden gust of wind in the opposite direction which would counter act the movement of air which would rock Mr. Z's car off the jack. He could have done all these things without interfering with the free-will of Mr. Z and yet saved him from his doom -but He didn't. The question now is, "Does it really help to say that God didn't ordain the failure of the jack but merely permitted it? If a human cannot avoid responsibility by saying he only permitted the man to die, how much less can a sovereign God avoid responsibility by saying he only permitted the accident to happen? So those of position #2 do not seen that position #1 resolves anything after all. In point of fact, it only calls God's power into question. Was he really helpless in adverting the man's doom? Did He misjudge the velocity of the truck and the effect it would cause on the teetering jack? How many things in a sinful world actually occur without His sovereign ordination and providential control? Position #2 (Calvinist) maintain that God's sovereignty and providential control are achieved and maintained through the manipulation of secondary causes. Position #1 (Arminians), hold that God only permits such things to occur. Nevertheless, His permission necessarily means that He bore ultimate responsibility for it. After all, He could have chosen "not to permit" the truck driver from leaving the last stop light for 30 seconds longer. Calvinist (#2) believe that God ordains all the comes to pass and brings that ordination to fruition either by active or passive means. "All things work together for the good" requires preordination. ((( s.r.c.b-s is a moderated group. All posts are approved by a moderator. ))) ((( Read http://srcbs.org for details about this group BEFORE you post. ))) --- UseNet To RIME Gateway {at} 1/22/05 6:32:24 PM ---* Origin: MoonDog BBS þ Brooklyn,NY 718 692-2498 (1:278/230) SEEN-BY: 633/267 270 5030/786 @PATH: 278/230 10/345 106/1 2000 633/267 |
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