Hi Rich, as you were just saying about Re: Gang Turf....
RW> RW> CH> the gang has a chance to take over?  The task force could 
organize 
RW> RW> CH> and inform the citizens while taking police action to discourage
RW> the
RW> RW> CH> gang members.
RW> RW> 
RW> RW> RB> So, basically, the police would just be another gang,
RW> RW> RB> starting things out with  an adversarial, aggressive
RW> RW> RB> attitude? Sounds horrible, but *very* feasible. 
RW> RW> 
RW> RW> My suggestion would be allowing every adult in the area
RW> RW> to carry a concealed weapon.  Let the gang know that
RW> RW> they are in danger if the try to commit a crime.
RW> 
RW> RT> The major problem that I see with that is that is that most
RW> RT> crimes committed those areas are property crimes which do
RW> RT> not carry a death penalty.  This means that in order for the
RW> 
RW> If the cops have problems getting LACs to testify
RW> against a gang member I don't think they would get many
RW> to testify FOR one.  
Am I to assume that you are saying they should *claim* that they shot
in fear of their lives when such was nowhere near the case?  And to do
it simply because no one would back up any claims from the perp(s)?
RW> Also if you ask several people who
RW> have used a firearm to prevent a crime you will find
RW> that in almost every instance the weapon is never
RW> fired.  The fear of being shot is enough to change a
RW> criminal's mind.  
Been there, done that.
RW> Now if the criminals don't know who
RW> might be armed it makes their job a lot harder and
RW> possibly more dangerous.
True.
 
RW> RT> citizen to act with the possibility of deadly force, he/she
RW> RT> must feel that their life (or a third party's) are in
RW> RT> immediate danger of loss or serious bodily harm.  As far as
RW> RT> I know, the only other times a citizen may shoot is to
RW> RT> prevent a rape or arson of an occupied building.  A citizen
RW> 
RW> In most places (where CCWs are allowed) a person is
RW> allowed to use deadly force when they are in FEAR of
RW> death or grievous bodily harm.  
I just said that above.
RW> IOW, if someone
RW> approaches you and says something to the effect of
RW> "Give me your money or we're going to kick your a$$."
RW> you could reasonably be afraid and use deadly force.
I am in one of those areas and I am licensed to carry.  I am also very
aware of the laws in that regard.  A verbal threat does not a deadly
force situation make.  Now if that verbal threat was *accompanied* by
any aggressive physical move toward the victim, you are correct.
RW> BTW, I think in Louisiana you can use deadly force
RW> against a car jacker.
Yes.
 
RW> RT> cannot shoot someone for resisting arrest.   The bottom line
RW> RT> is that unless it falls into a legal shooting situation,
RW> RT> carrying a gun is a rather empty threat. 
RW> 
RW> No it isn't.  I have know several people who have used
RW> weapons (handguns, long guns, a baseball bat and in one
RW> case a golf club) to prevent crimes where the use of
RW> deadly force would not have been legal.  In each case
RW> the weapon was NOT used just "shown".
My point was that if the perp moves away from you (resisting arrest),
even if he is carrying your damn TV, he is no longer threatening you
with immediate loss of your life in the eyes of the law.  Your choice
is to physically go after him (as I mentioned below) or let him go. 
One of your choices, at that point, is not to shoot him, no matter how
pissed off you are about the TV.
 
RW> RT> Of course, one could attempt to stop the goblins as a normal
RW> RT> citizen should and then when they threatened you, it could
RW> RT> very well be, "Katy, bar the door...."   :^)
RW> 
RW> Which usually happens when you tell a criminal that you
RW> are not going to allow him to take what you have.
Do what you will.....it will be your day in court.
RD 
sandman@azstarnet.com 
http://www.azstarnet.com/~sandman
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