On Feb 3, 9:45 pm, Duggy  wrote:
> On Feb 3, 10:36 pm, "John W. Kennedy" 
> wrote:
>
> > On Feb 3, 5:10 pm,Duggy wrote:
> > > On Feb 3, 8:21 pm, "John W. Kennedy"
 wrote:
> >  > > Aliens are not angels; angels are not aliens.
> > > One race of aliens manipulated our perception of angels and thus the
> > > generally accepted image of angels are in fact based on those aliens.
> > Non-sequitur.
>
> Non-sequiturs occur in usenet conversions.  Sometimes they lead to
> interesting tangential points, sometimes they just muddy the waters.
> This one muddies my main point, but addresses another point in my
> original post.
>
> That being, the Priest initial conversation and the "demon"'s argument
> are hinged on humans going out into space and not finding evidence of
> angels.  However, the Vorlon's influence on other cultures contradict
> that.
Vorlons are not evidence of angels.
> > > That doesn't prove either way that angels did or didn't exist before
> > > Vorlon interference or whether the concept existed.
> > And therefore the Vorlons are irrelevant.
>
> No, as they influenced other cultures.  Humans went out into space
> found other races had angelic beings and no one - not even the church
> - thought that was evidence of angels?
"No one"? -- I have no idea what sort of conclusions were jumped to by
loonies. But to any intelligent Christian, the evidence is equivocal,
and hopelessly muddied, to boot.
> > > > In the absence of any further information about
Sheridan's rescue, the
> > > > hypothesis that the rescuer might have been an angelic
being could not
> > > > be ruled out,
> > > He looked like an Angelic being.  Other races thought that it was
> > > their angel-looking-being.  Are humans less gullible.
> > You seem to be arguing something like, "All the beings who witnessed
> > the event drew the same conclusions, and never changed their minds,
> > even after they found out that Sheridan's rescuer was Kosh." That
> > makes no sense.
>
> It certainly doesn't, and I'm sorry it seems that way.
>
> The priest claimed that since human went into space there has been no
> proof of angels.
>
> Today people see signs of angels, Mary, Jesus, ghosts, etc, etc on far
> less proof then seeing them flying around... in this case a large
> number of witnesses saw the angel, so there would have been at least a
> blip in belief.
And then the "evidence" was exposed as a fraud.
> And did people find out that Sheridan's rescuer was Kosh?  It was
> certainly kept quiet while Kosh was alive.  It may have been made
> known during or after the Shadow War but that's never made explicit.
The League is clearly acquainted with the truth behind the Shadows and
the Vorlons at Corianna VI. To hold back the part about phony angels,
especially when it tied in with Sheridan's unwanted image as a
messiah, would be pointless and distasteful.
> And, historically, a "proof" that a mystical event wasn't doesn't stop
> people believing or new people being convinced of it later.
It stops people who can think.
> > > > but, as far as I know, by this late date, any decently
> > > > educated person knows the truth.
> > > What truth is that?
> > That it was Kosh and that the Vorlons had been up to that sort of
> > thing for a mighty long time. While it is true that we are not
> > expressly shown Sheridan and Delenn doing this, it is hard to imagine
> > how or why they could kept it a secret after Corianna VI.
>
> I disagree.  In fact, at least one part of the secret - Vorlons
> creating telepaths remained a secret long past the war and until Byron
> found out and started shouting about it.
That's a different issue. Both before and after the Telepath War,
publicizing that business meant throwing gasoline on a fire (as
Sheridan et al. clearly saw during the Byron crisis).0
--- SBBSecho 2.12-Win32