Conclusion...
DH> I'm not sure what you mean by "Remember Robin? Speed?  Wertham?".
DH> Are you suggesting that the only characters worthy of replacing an
DH> existing veteran is his/her sidekick?
ST> Considering how much better Batman was without Robin, I'd say
ST> YES!!  Green Arrow worked much better without Speedy as well!
ST> Revamping Robin into the more mature Nightwing improved the
ST> character IMMENSELY, in my opinion, (although I still don't like
ST> his TT relationship with Starfire!)
     There's a couple of points I want to address here...
1)  I think you missed the point of my my question...  'cuz IMO,
having Robin and Speedy grow up to be Nightwing and Arsenal
(respectively) isn't what I was referring to.  Having Robin/Speedy
grow up to become the next Batman/Green Arrow was.
2)  I'll agree with you that the bearded Green Arrow never worked well
with Speedy... but I think the clean-shaven Green Arrow with the Green
& Red costume (which will be featured in the next "Legends Of The DC
Universe" 3-parter which spotlights the first teaming of Green Arrow &
Green Lantern) did work well with a sidekick.
3)  You won't get any arguement from me about the Nightwing/Starfire
relationship.  Don't get me wrong... I like both characters... but
Starfire just doesn't fit into the world of the Bat-characters... and
indeed, I believe the ongoing developments with their intimate
relationship kept Nightwing from being spun-off into his own series
(notice that Robin, Catwoman & Azrael all got ongoing series before
Nightwing even got his first mini-series... which didn't happen until
he was out of the Titans and his relationship with Starfire was over).
Fortunately, the writers of "The New Titans" stopped just short of
marrying them off...
DH> existing veteran is his/her sidekick?  Or is it that the only way
DH> to introduce a younger generation of characters is through the
DH> introduction of a sidekick?
ST> Hardly. The only teen sidekicks that ever worked, to my mind, were
ST> the Marvel kids and Kid Flash, who is now THE Flash! You could see
ST> Wally learning in every Infantino/Broome adventure he shared with
ST> his mentor!
     I agree.  If there was an original Teen Titan who always seemed
destined to take over for his mentor... it was Wally West (and I think
he's done a great job of it too).  After Roy Harper's drug problems,
the Speedy/Green Arrow partnership suffered a fatal blow... as did the
"Dynamic Duo", when Dick Grayson decided he wanted out from under the
Shadow Of The Bat.  The result was that both sidekicks abandoned that
role in favour of becoming their own hero.  To that end, it'd be my
preference that they never succeed their ex-mentors.  Aqualad fits
somewhere between Kid Flash and Robin/Speedy.  Like Wally West (IMO),
his relationship with Aquaman has remained good over the years
(although, I think the death or Arthur Jr., may have impacted somewhat
on the close friendship they had)...  but I never saw Garth succeeding
Arthur should something have happened to him.  Like Nightwing and
Arsenal though...  he's no longer a sidekick, preferring to adopt a
totally different code-name (Tempest), a spiffy new suit and powers
too.  I'm actually looking forward to seeing what this new "Titans"
book does with these characters.
DH> Who the heck is Wertham?
ST> Man, you ARE from the latter egenration, aren't you?!
     I guess that depends what you consider to be the "latter
generation".  I was born in 1965 and have been reading comics since
around 1972.
ST> Dr. Wertham, Frederic Wertham, was the bane of all comicdom. He
ST> wrote a book called "Seduction of the Innocent" where he went
ST> after comics with a vengeance! He cited titles like Superman and
ST> Captain Marvel as "violent and subversive", leading to juvenile
ST> delinquency in minors.
     This wouldn't be the same guy who was featured in the quirky
documentary about the history of the comic industry called, "Comic
Book Confidential", would it?  All the while he's going on about the
evils of kids rotting their minds on comics... a B&W film is playing
of a bunch of kids reading comics outdoors.  Suddenly, one of the kids
gets this crazy-look in his eye and begins to mindlessly stab a tree
with a pen-knife.  I nearly choked on my popcorn when I saw that in
theatres...
ST> He especially was fond of pointing out the homoerotic
ST> possibilities of Batman and Robin: the fact that here was a grown
ST> man and a young boy in leotards and capes, Robin in hot pants and
ST> elfin shoes and a YELLOW cape, riding around at night in a two
ST> seat automobile, ostensibly to catch crooks, but WE all knew
ST> better!!
     Back in the late '80s/early '90s, Rick Veitch did a 5-issue mini-
series for King Hell comics called "Brat Pack" which was a very dark
look into the world of super-heroes with a special emphasis on the
life of the sidekick.  One of the mentor characters is called "The
Midnight Mink"... who has a sidekick named "Chippy" and it's a
disturbingly twisted and similar sort of relationship (there was no
mistaking who they were supposed to be, lets put it that way...).
Yikes!!!  8)
ST> He went after TV, too....citing "Bonanza" as another example of
ST> this sort of thing, due to its lack of womenfolk on the Ponderosa!
     Bonanza!?!??  But the Cartwrights were a family, for goodness
sake.  What happened,... did he have his tie on too tight that morning
(cutting off the oxygen to his brain)?  Somebody spike his coffee with
some halucinogenic substance?...
ST> You can probably find the book in your local library. Read
ST> it...it's REALLY funny in parts!!
     I'll keep my eye out for it.  Thanks for the tip.
DH> Your right though... it's not always good to mess with something
DH> that was done well.  Unfortunately for Ollie Queen...  I don't see
DH> that as necessarily being the case.  I think Connor Hawke has
DH> lived up to the legacy laid down by his father... and I think,
DH> given a chance, he can be every bit the Green Arrow Ollie was too.
DH> It'll be interesting to see what plans Kevin Smith has for both
DH> Green Arrows (which rumours say he does) when he takes over the
DH> book.  My hope is that his obvious love for Ollie Queen doesn't
DH> blind him to the potential of Connor Hawke...  and he, at the very
DH> least, respects his place in the DCU.  I have no problem with the
DH> return of the old Green Arrow... so long as it doesn't impact
DH> negatively on the current Green Arrow.
ST> We shall see, shan't we...?
     That we will, I guess.  I read a rumour the other day which won't
make collectors of the current "Green Arrow" series very happy though.
When Kevin Smith becomes the writer of the book, it's being reset to
#1 (as will happen when he revamps Daredevil too)... so I guess we
can't complain that rebooting series is a Marvel-Only problem anymore.
8(
Talk to you later.
David
.
--- Maximus 3.01
---------------