On Feb 27, 11:04 pm, voxwoman  wrote:
> On Feb 27, 1:47 pm, Alan Dicey 
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Joe Chicago wrote:
> > > Re; Kosh
>
> > > 1) Consider Kosh's remark to the effect that if he is seen everyone
> > > will recognize him (sorry, can't get more specific). This would seem
> > > to indicate that that they've been around.
>
> > > 2) Consider Childhood's End by Arthur C. Clarke; same story from the
> > > opposite direction.
>
> > Not at all.  Just because the Overlords turn out to look like Devils
> > does not mean they are opposite to the Vorlons.
>
> > I think the points of contact between Clarke's Childhood's End and
> > Babylon 5 have been discussed here before, but not recently.
>
> > Both are tales of the evolution of Mankind.  Childhood's End has Mankind
> > dispensing with physical form in one generation, under the manipulation
> > of the Overlords.  B5 has a multispecies Galactic collaboration throwing
> > off the unwanted interferance of their two "guardian" races,
> > demonstrating that they are evolved already, while still acknowledging
> > that there is another stage to come, that of "passing beyond
the Rim".
>
> > The Vorlons have manipulated the races they have interfered with (I want
> > to say Uplifted, but that is too strong a term) so as to see them as the
> > embodiment of mythological benign figures of Light, the White Hats, Good
> > Guys, and so on.  This is pure propaganda on their part, to further
> > their own agenda The Vorlons don't interfere overtly, however,
> > maintaining an enigmatic public face and not claiming any special
> > relationships in the political arena: Clarke's Overlords impose their
> > will on the human race and don't let them off the planet.
>
> > Vorlons and Shadows can pass beyond the Rim, and achieve the next stage
> > of evolution:  the Overlords can't, and in that sense are tragic figures.
>
> > Childhood's End finishes with the merging of Humanity's last children
> > with the Overmind: B5 ends with a much more positive note, of Humanity
> > telling its erstwhile parents that it's fed up with them bickering and
> > we're all grown up now, so bugger off.
>
> > > This story is an excellent addition to that rare genre,
"theological
> > > fiction."
>
> > I don't think of either story as "theological".  They
are SF, rational
> > tales of mankind's evolution; theology substitutes faith for reason.
>
> > More significantly, I think that JMS's conclusion is new, different and
> > very successful: it suckers you into the belief that we're going to see
> > another choice of Light over Dark, only to come up with a new answer:
> > Neither!
>
> Well let's not discount the Bene Geseret planting "prophecies" on the
> more backward worlds in the Dune universe, either.Or the Cargo Cult,
> which was real.
Cargo cults are fascinating if you do a "what if" a la Erich Von
Daniken (sp?) Nazca lines etc....
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