> Want to give us a couple "discographies" as good sub attack/delay 
 > tests? Not so
 > much deep bass as much as "fast" bass tests....
 > I'm a drummer - I -can- relate :-)
        It's not so easy to do because there aren't a lot of albums/songs (at 
least that I have) that have *really* fast and *really* low bass frequencies. 
 For example, I have a disc Mark Weiss recommended awhile back to me called 
"Tenchi Muyo Vol.2" that has a lot of 20-40Hz bass.  The last track of this 
disc has that low bass moving faster than I was ever used to hearing (not 
drums mind you, but a synthesized bass instrument).  The sub seemed to have 
no problems with this and so for awhile I thought it was a very fast sub 
because of this and the fact that it blends so well with my ribbon speakers, 
which are inherently extremely fast.
        As it turns out, it sounded faster than it was because for one thing, 
the *tempo* was fast, and more to the point, it was a bass instrument moving 
at a fast tempo, but not actually really fast notes.  Even when you have 
really low frequency bass drums, how often do you hear them played at 1/16th? 
 Almost never.  Your foot probably wouldn't reliably move that fast (well, 
you tell me, you're the drummer :) and even if it could or if you were using 
a large hand hammered bass drum, why would you want 20Hz or even 30Hz bass 
1/16 bass notes (or at least with instruments that have their primary 
energies in that region....)?  It's almost like a fast beating earthquake.  I 
mean you might hear 40Hz and especially 80Hz type stuff that fast, but 
20-30Hz?  I'd like some people to point some discs out to ME that do that 
(that are of a type of music that I can stand...e.g. no rap please).  
        
        Anyways, the disc originally in question is the Mission: Impossible! 
soundtrack on track 4.  It starts out with some snares and "normal" bass 
drums playing a marching rhythm, but then it hits these much lower and louder 
triplet--no I take that back.  I just counted the beats and there were 5 
notes, not 3 + a longer note.  I just checked the CD again to be sure.  The 
last note is slightly longer with an equal rest.  So, that actually makes 
that 4 1/16 notes followed by a 1/8 note and a 1/8 rest and then it repeats.  
So, it's actually faster than I thought.  Through headphones, it sounded more 
like a regular bass drum (the kind you wheel in and hit on the side with a 
hammer, not a kick style bass tube).
        To be honest, by ear, I'm not positive of the fundamental 
frequency...perhaps it was only 40Hz or so, but just seemed lower because it 
was louder.  Percussion seems harder to judge than instruments.  Even Mark 
with his killer 12Hz system goofed up on his estimate of freqency by more 
than half an octave with regular instruments awhile back (I called it 
correctly and he found out when measured with a spectrum analyzer).  
Unfortunately, I don't have one to measure with, so this makes it even 
harder.  Still, 30Hz or 40Hz, it's still a good track to test a sub with.  
I'm almost postive the Tenchi disc is in the 30Hz range, though, but it's not 
percussion, as I said.
        Really, your typical instruments in the 20-30ish Hz range are rather 
few and far between.  You have pipe organs, taiko drums, detuned or extremely 
large bass drums, and synthesizers for the most part (maybe a few more I'm 
forgetting or less familiar with too).  I'm not into techno, so there's one 
possible source of speedy 30Hz bass songs??? 
        You can see why I didn't notice anything for so long.  The 
36dB/octave linkwitz-riley crossover blends just beautifully with the 
12dB/octave high pass on the AL-III ribbons.  I read some statements from 
Carver that mentioned the real problem with hybrid speaker designs to keep 
the woofers from sounding slow in comparison is not in finding fast enough 
bass drivers to keep up with the electrostatic/ribbon element (good luck), 
but using a suitable crossover match between the two drivers.  I don't know 
how true this is, but it seems consistant in this case.  I'd really like to 
compare a known "FAAAAST" sub like the Kinergetics Tower subs to see how much 
improvement there actually would be in my room.  This would be rather 
difficult to do.  Meanwhile, when I get around to it, I want to take that 
track to some dealers and try it on some other brand subs.  I know it's the 
one track that made me notice there was a problem.  Other discs sound fine 
without a direct comparison to compare with, especially under the same room 
conditions.
        Sorry if this isn't very useful information, but it's the problem I'm 
facing.  On the plus side, it sounds good with everything else...although if 
I probe too deeply, I may just disappoint myself some more  (Once you hear an 
*actual*( improvement with a different product in your listening room, going 
back is tough to do.  Spending $3000-4000 on Kinergetics Towers is just not 
in my current budget, let alone the amplification I would need to drive them 
properly.  I'm hoping to find something closer to the same price range that's 
superior.  I've read some good things about Bob's new Sunfire Subwoofer, but 
I've read a comment or two by others that say it's unmusical.  I need to 
check on the nearest dealer to have a listen for myself.
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