Dave Davidson,

28-Oct-99 19:20:21, Dave Davidson wrote to Andy Roberts
 DD> 26-Oct-99 23:36:50, Andy Roberts wrote to Ian Moote
 AR> 26-Oct-99 12:40:00, Ian Moote wrote to ANDY ROBERTS
 AR> Subject: M$ "screw you" FAT32

 AR>>>> I need to find out how to permanently get rid of a type "b"
 AR>>>> FAT32 partition created with WIN95 OSR2.  I assume that is
 AR>>>> similar to a type "F" partition.

 IM>>> I've got a utility here that I wrote for DOS which will blast
 IM>>> the entire MBR off the drive. Send me your E-Mail address.

 DD> Can ya send it to _ME_ as well.

I haven't received that util yet either.

 DD> I'm the one Andy is trying to help. The two drives currently in that
 DD> machine in question are Segate 4.3GB and a Western Digital 2.5GB. The
 DD> Seagate drive is the one that poses the greatest problem as it refuses
 DD> to allow Bootmanager to be installed, and will allow OS/2's FDISK to
 DD> delete partitions, but not create any.

OS/2's FDISK did not delete the type "b" FAT32 partition.  It did try to
delete it, but when you went back into FDISK again after a reboot, then the
type "b" FAT32 partition was back again.  Thus there was no available free
space to create any other partition nor install Boot Manager.  At least that
is what I gathered from our voice conversation.

 AR>>>> BTW, as far as the 10.3 GB HD is concerned, he did say he got
 AR>>>> the >8GB drivers and made an updated set of OS/2 install
 AR>>>> diskettes

 AR>> No, Idedasd.Exe

 DD> The 10.3GB drive is also a Seagate and is also the one that
 DD> received the low level format, which didn't help. The IDEDASD.EXE
 DD> was added to the OS/2 install disk set.

Humm...  That is a self-extracting archive IDEDASD.EXE contains:
IBM1S506.ADD
IBMATAPI.FLT
IBMIDECD.FLT
IDEDASD.DDP
OS2DASD.DMD
README.TXT

On the updated set of install floppies, you do not put IDEDASD.EXE, but rather
the 5 replacement files, it contains.  See the ReadMe.Txt for details.

 DD> FWIW, when the 10.3GB drive was being used, it was the ONLY drive
 DD> in the system and is recognized by the BIOS on boot-up. Each of
 DD> the three drives were used as single drives in an attempt to get
 DD> OS/2 to load. All three show a Type B partition when OS/2's FDISK
 DD> starts. When it is deleted, FDISK will _NOT_ allow me to create
 DD> any partitions after the Type B partition is deleted.

Last I heard you hadn't found anything that would delete the type "b"
partition.  Don't be fooled by FDISK trying to delete it until you go back
into FDISK again after a reboot, to see if it really did delete it.

You'll need to LLF all 3 of those HDs to be able to use them with OS/2.

 AR>>>> He said he started out by deleting _ALL_ WIN98 stuff, then
 AR>>>> running Seagate's Low Level Format.

 IM>>> I haven't used the latest incarnation of SGATFMT*; does it have
 IM>>> a "non-destructive format" option that was used?

 DD> The Seagate format utility I used was destructive. There were at
 DD> least two warnings I had to acknowlege before it would actually
 DD> start the process, which with the 10.3GB drive, took almost 12
 DD> hours!

Small penalty in time for using M$ to begin with. 

 AR>> I haven't used it in many years.  But he said he used it.

 DD> Hehehe, I did!

If it were me doing the work, then I would run the Low Level Format again.
And DO NOT install any M$ OS on that HD after that, until OS/2 is installed.

 AR>>>> In the process he has tried to delete that FAT32 partition with
 AR>>>> Linux, DOS 6.2, and Partition Magic.

 IM>>> None of those worked!?

 AR>> That was my understanding.  After each, OS/2 FDISK still would
 AR>> not let him create Boot Manager due to a lack of free space and
 AR>> had 1 type "b" partition that consumed almost the whole HD.  But
 AR>> I didn't do the work.  So there may be other circumstances.

 AR>>>> In typical M$ user fashion he repeats those last steps 1/2 a
 AR>>>> dozen times until he becomes frustrated and blames OS/2, then
 AR>>>> re-installs Win98.

 DD> Correction.... I didn't _blame_ OS/2, I simply stated it wouldn't
 DD> load on my system. Since I've successfully loaded OS/2 on other
 DD> machines I had, there obviously has to be something else causing
 DD> the problem. The question is what!

I know exactly what the problem is.  You installed WIN95 OSR2 on each of those
HDs which created a type "b" FAT32 partition which consumes all the space.
Delete that and your problem will be solved.

But don't expect OS/2 FDISK to be able to delete the type "b" FAT32 partition,
because OS/2 was released before FAT32 existed, so OS/2 does not know how to
deal with it.

 DD> The reason for wanting to install OS/2 is simple.... The BBS
 DD> System I'm using simply isn't up to the task I want to do with a
 DD> BBS. AdeptXBBS however, is. So, I need to get OS/2 setup so I can
 DD> run Adept. Simple as that.

'Out of the frying pan and into the fire.'

 IM>>> In order to remove all partitions from the drive, simply zero
 IM>>> all the values from 01BEh to 01FDh. Personally, I think you
 IM>>> should get rid of that Windows MBR entirely by zeroing out
 IM>>> everything from 0000h to 01FFh.

 AR>> Yes, I agree getting rid of the whole MBR seems best.  And with
 AR>> those addresses it should be easy.

 DD> Maybe for you guys it is easy. However, my knowledge of hard drive
 DD> geometry is about equal to my knowledge of rocket science.  I
 DD> can install 'em, format 'em, do simple diagnostics, etc. but
 DD> that's it.

Load Norton's diskedit.exe from a DOS floppy boot.  You'll see it is not that
hard to edit those addresses.

Or look for that msg with the debug procedure, which should do the same thing.

 AR>>>> Personally I'm a little surprised that Seagate's Low Level
 AR>>>> Format prgm for IDE drives did not solve the problem.

 IM>>> As am I.

 DD> That's one of the reasons why the frustration level rose so high.
 DD> Unless I'm not doing something properly, I've followed _all_ the
 DD> suggestions and instructions provided.

Only think I can think of is that since you did the work off and on over a
period of time, that maybe after you ran the LLF, then you installed WinXX
again, before you tried to install OS/2.  In that sequence you would have
fixed the problem with the LLF, but created the same problem again with WinXX,
before OS/2 ever got a chance to use the clean HD.

I think you have re-installed WinXX so many times, that you subconsciously
think that is the ultimate solution to every problem.  In this case I am
trying to tell you that M$ is not the solution and caused the problem.

2 things I have doubts about: 1.) that the LLF doesn't work.  2.) that M$ came
up with some way to prevent the type "b" partition (or partition table or MBR)
from being deleted by all the other methods that have been suggested.

 DD> Maybe, just maybe, someone will be able to unlock the secret that
 DD> will permit me to install OS/2 on the machine in question.

Read all the msgs in this Subj thread.  I think I Forwarded at least 3-4 of
them to you via netmail.  There have been at least 3 different ways other than
LLF, suggested to accomplish the same end result.  Well almost the same.  The
other methods only deal with the partition table or MBR.  The LLF should clean
the whole HD, which is much better if you ever use CHKDSK /f3 or some 3rd
party util to recover deleted files.

It might help if you get a safe with a timed delay combination lock, set to
not open for at least 30 days.  Then put all your various WinXX install CDs in
the safe and lock it.  Then run the LLF, then install OS/2.

     Thanks and Good Luck,        Andy Roberts
                                  andy@shentel.net
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