CM>     ****************************************************************
  >     Hay I get medicare and medicaid and  pay for it too 70 dollars
  >     a month I draw about 540 we can talk about that let's talk about
  >     tennessees socialized medical setup , gate keepers and care givers
  >     while you dying in the er and they ar fighting over your blue card
  >     this is tuchy and I'd rather not get rilled-up but you can bet you
  >     last dollar I know and I lost my doctor because of all this crap
  >     too . I don't get any theropy anymore ... they cut that and I'm
  >     not alone but my taxes did not drop one penny .
  >     *****************************************************************
I have a sister who is on SSI right now because of being disabled.  She
is disabled because of a series of medical blunders, but that's a story
unto itself, and not one I will go into here.  So I know a little about
how frustrating it can be to work within the system.  But she does get
her medical bills paid for, except for some minimal deduction.  I don't
think she's charged for the SSI, so I'm not sure what you mean by paying
$70 a month for it.  The current system of medical care, with health
maintence groups, is frustrating for everyone involved, except the
insurance groups themselves, who are making a profit.  I know someone
who was in an auto accident about a year ago.  He was delivered
unconscious to the emergency room.  The auto insurance paid their part
of the hospital bill, minus the $500 deductible.  The health insurance
company (US healthcare) should have covered the rest, minus the $5
co-pay. They have, to date, refused to pay their share of the bill
because the patient did not call his primary physician first, and get
permission to go to the emergency room.  The case is currently in
appeals.
  >     not. Show me why I a 43 year old male should be forced to ware a
  >     setbelt , show me what moral law I have broken or why it makes me
  >     a criminal to society . do you now how many times a loaf of bread
I don't know what you mean by "criminal to society" as opposed to just
"criminal".  By definition, a criminal is a person who has broken a law.
If you don't wear a seat belt, you have broken a law.  That makes you a
criminal.  Now, you may not have broken a moral law by not wearing a
seat belt; that is subject to personal opinion.  My personal opinion is
that you have broken a moral law, because not wearing a seat belt
endangers others as well as yourself.  But that's my own opinion, and
you obviously disagree with me.
  >     is taxed hefore you eat it ? add them up starting with the seeds
  >     the land used to grow the wheat and farmer who bought the seed
  >     and sold the wheat, the grainery, the baker,the deliveryman, come
  >     on please tax tax tax and you pay a buck 25 for a dollars worth
  >     of taxes . I'm being realistc are you ?(*food for the hungry etc.)
Yes, I do know how many times a loaf of bread is taxed before I eat it.
I also know how often I avoid paying most of those taxes by baking my
own bread.  I have a friend who strongly disapproves of war (he's a
pascifist) and does not want to pay any taxes that might be used to
support any war cause.  He knows that a certain percentage of all taxes
he pays goes to support the military (I think it's 36%).  His solution:
he deliberately earns below the poverty level so as to pay very little
taxes.  He decided that making that material sacrifice was, for him, a
morally necessary thing to do.  He also is working in political circles
to try and change the tax system.  But he is not disobeying the law
while he works to change it; and he is not simply complaining.  He is
actively living his belief system.  I have never heard him blame his
poverty on the system.  He takes a sort of quiet pride in his poverty.
It is the outward sign of an inward commitment.
On the other hand, I know another person who refuses to pay her taxes
at all, because she, too, is opposed to war. (Both these people are
Quakers, by the way; and both Quakers and Mennonites have a religious
belief system that forbids any participation in war). She is fully
prepared to lose her house, her car, and her freedom to support this
cause.  She thought through her position, and decided to take a stand
against a law she sees as immoral, and she sees no way of paying part of
the tax since any part she pays may be used for war.  She also is
working actively to try and make changes in the tax law. But she does
not spend a lot of time complaining about the unfairness of the system.
She knows the tax laws reflect what the majority of the elected
representatives, and probably what the majority of Americans, want, so
far as war expenses go.  If she does go to jail, or lose her property,
and one or the other is almost certain to happen, I expect she will
accept the loss without blaming it on the system.  She knows the choices
she has made.  I sense that she will accept the consequences with the
same sort of quiet pride I see in the man.  It will be the outward sign
of an inward conviction.
CM>     start talking about taxation with out representation and your
  >     speaking a foreign language . Hello is anyone awake here !!!
You have representatives, Charles -- the ones the majority of the people
elected, even if they aren't the ones you wanted.  Heck, we don't even
have the governor I wanted here in New Jersey, but we *do* have the
governor that the majority of the people wanted.
                       Sondra
-*-
 þ SLMR 2.1a þ I was born on a storm-swept rock. -- Liam O'Flaherty
--- Opus-CBCS 1.7x via O_QWKer 1.1
---------------