In article , lsenders{at}hotmail.com
says...

>Matthew Johnson wrote:
>> In article , Jacob Rizor
>says...
>> >
>>
>> > We Certainly
>> >have far less "free will" than we like to imagine-
we are largely
>controlled
>> >by conditioning.
>>
>> Ah, but that is ONLY true of the "natural man" (as PSUXIKOS is so
>badly
>> translated) of 1 cor 2:14-15. The "spiritual man" is no
longer ruled
>by his
>> nature, but rules his nature instead. That is why it is the faith of
>the
>> spiritual man that can move mountains (Mk 11:21-24).
>>
>The natural man is the flesh.

Certainly not! The "natural man" is a real man, not a
personification of the
flesh.

>In this life we never entirely purge the flesh.

Are you equivocating? It certainly looks like it. Why do you keep ignoring the
multiple meanings of 'flesh'?

>Thus the Pauline prayer concerning the thorn in/of the flesh.

No, that does not follow.

>Thus chapter 7 of Romans.

That does not follow either.

>Thus the Pauline admonitions to work at
>depriving the flesh of power.

How can you uphold this as a support for _your_ broken theology when it is
_really_ support for mine?? Pay closer attention to your own quote of Paul's
words: we are to work at depriving the flesh of _power_, NOT at destroying the
flesh itself. That is because if we grant the flesh power over us, then we
become the "natural man", we do NOT become the "spiritual
man". But if it is we
who have power over the flesh, then our conditions becomes like taht of Adam in
Paradise. That is why St. Seraphim of Sarov was able to feed bread to wild
bears, stand 40 days and nights on a rock in prayer, see the uncreated light,
etc.

>The "spiritual man" is the born again /
>regenerated man who is being led by the spirit.

Now if only we could agree on what "born again" and
"regenerated" mean! For if
you had picked the right sense for these words, we would agree.

>  But either man can be
>a true Christian.

No. The "natural man" is lost.

>  This involved the existential aspect of salvation
>-sanctification.

And if you stand in the way of your own sanctification, and keep doing so to the
end of your days, you are LOST.

>The faith to move "mountains" is already performed when man ceases
>quenching the Spirit and, like Christ (Lk 4:1) walks in the fullness of
>the Spirit.  To move a "mountain" is an external exhibition of the
>inward metamorph.

"inward metamorph"? What was _that_ supposed to mean? Better yet,
don't answer.
Just drop that ill-advised excuse for denying the literal force of Christ's
words.

Just because YOU cannot move mountains is no excuse for denying that the
spiritual men do it. St. Mark the Ascetic was famous for this.


-- 
---------------------------
Subudcat se sibi ut haereat Deo
quidquid boni habet, tribuat illi a quo factus est.
(St. Augustine, Ser. 96)

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