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echo: bible-study
to: All
from: Lsenders{at}hotmail.Com
date: 2005-02-03 14:21:00
subject: Re: Once Saved Always Saved

Matthew Johnson wrote:
>
> > so what do you care?  Salvation was
> >never the issue.
>
> Yes, it is the issue.
>
> >  Fellowship was the issue.
>
> So _you_ love to claim. But that is only because you have already
made up your
> mind that OSAS is true, and will leave no stone unturned in your
quest to
> pervert the rest of Scripture to fit your preconceived notion.
>
The clause on the destruction of the flesh is grammatically subordinate
to the main purpose clause, "that his spirit may be saved" (v. 5).
Even though the Greek word pneuma, "spirit" in translation can be
capitalized as "Spirit" or refer to man's "spirit,"
translators understand the term to refer not to the divine, but the
human spirit.

Now earlier you have suggested the interpretation that the Christian
community had to expel the incestuous man, ie excommunicate him.  I
imagine that your basis for this is that it was an offense to the
presence of the Holy Spirit.   Certainly Scripture teaches not to
grieve or stifle the Holy Spirit of God (cf. Eph 4:30; 1 Thess 5:19
but that is not the point of the  passage.

I can think of at least 3 reasons to  reject such an interpretation:
first, v. 5 contrasts man's flesh and spirit, not human flesh and the
Holy Spirit. Next, Paul states that man's spirit may be saved, not
that the presence of the Holy Spirit may be kept. And third, in the
preceding verses (vv. 3, 4) the word pneuma occurs twice and refers to
man's spirit, not to the Holy Spirit.

So perhaps a better hypothesis is that it holds, in addition to the act
of excommunication (shunning, an OT principle), God permiting Satan to
attack and gradually weaken man's physical body (cf. Job 2:5; 2 Cor
12:7). Paul would not then be referring to a sudden demise (as e.g., in
Acts 5:1-10), but to a slow process of physical decline. During this
process the sinner receives ample time to reflect on his condition and
repent (cf. 1 Cor 11:28-30).

This no more involves the lost of salvation (being justified) than does
Heb 6 or Heb 10.  It involves purification of the elect even as Israel
was purified by its Babylonian captivity, etc.
Loss of salvation is the weakest argument of all possibilities.

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