KJ> ES>it's terms.  But just becuase there is a little problem I need to 
clear 
KJ> ES>does that mean I need to talk about it at an AA meeting?  I really 
think
KJ> 
KJ>         Whether or not you talk about a problem is your choice.  If you
KJ> are having a problem that might lead you to take a drink don't you
KJ> think it would be wise to discuss it with someone?
KJ> 
KJ>         A problem shared is a problem cut in half, or so they say...
I agree that it is wise to talk about the problem and get it out in the 
open. Yes!  But once you have and feedback is offered, then it is time for 
action.  We must do something about the problem.  On the other hand, if 
feedback is offered, (and often times I have given it), and the person 
oesn't
do anything based of the feedback offered, then they are stuck in rut.  This 
is where I have a problem with it.  If more than one person tells you the 
ame
thing don't you think that maybe there's something thta you should do about 
it?
KJ> ES>how we stay sober, and how we can help others stay sober.  It's not to 
s
KJ> 
KJ>         I stay sober by incorporating the steps into my life, trying to
KJ> maintain a conscious contact with my HP and by helping someone else to
KJ> stay sober.  If I can help another person stay sober by listening to
KJ> them bitch and moan about their problems and maybe offer some advice
KJ> based on my own experience and it helps them stay sober (let alone help
KJ> them with the other problem) then I've done well.  Forgive me if this
KJ> sounds cocky, but how do you help others to stay sober?
    I help others stay sober by sharing my E.S.& H. with the person.  I do 
ot
minimalize their problems, I do however make the suggestion that they should 
listen to themselves, becuase often times they answer their own questions.
KJ>
KJ> For me, the "focus" is found in this popular AA quote: KJ> 
KJ> "I am
responsible.  When anyone, anywhere reaches out for help, 
KJ> I want the hand
of AA to be there.  And for that, I am responsible." KJ> 
KJ> Notice it does
not say "...  When some AA at a meeting someplace 
KJ> is having trouble with
a program related problem..." 
KJ> 
KJ> Anyone - Anywhere - No matter what.  I
think we all fall short.
KJ> ES>have a complaint session on what he/she/it did to me today.  It's how
KJ> ES>I'm to handle things differently as a result of being sober that
KJ> ES>matters.
KJ> 
KJ>         Right, and just because *you* can handle things differently
KJ> today as a result of your sobriety does not mean that everyone else can.
KJ> Have you forgotten your yesterdays?
I donot regret the past and I definately do not shut the door on it.  I 
haven't once forgotten where I came from, and I definatley know where I'm 
going with it today.  Thank you!
KJ> ES>I've sit in meetings time and time again hearing the same people moan
KJ> ES>about bosses, their families, their wives, etc. asking evrybody for
KJ> ES>feedback.  I
KJ> 
KJ>         Aren't you a part of "everybody"?  Don't just "... sit in
KJ> meetings time and time again..."  Come down off your cloud or off yer
KJ> butt and give them the feedback they asked for.
Again I give feedback when it's asked for, and as for on my cloud, you are 
definately wrong and your comment is insulting.  At this current moment in my
life I'm facing issues that not too many people would be able to without 
either committing suicide, or becoming institutionalized.  I'm seeking
professional help to cope with them. And for you to make an assumption that 
n
some way i'm not living the program, applying the steps in my recovery, or 
acting in a manner that's keeping me sober and sane on a daily basis, you 
assumption is completely invalid, and should be reconsidered.  I sponsor four 
people in AA and three in CoDA.  Run a support group in CoDA, have founded an 
AA group, was a district officer, an advisor for four commitees in AA, and 
have been on summary boards in 3 AA workshops.  I keep service work 
efinatley
in mind.  However I also remeber that it is a selfish program.  I have to 
ook
out for number one.  I cannot carry the drunk, but I can carry the message.
KJ>         They may do something different eventually.  Pain is the
KJ> motivator.
Yes pain is a great motivator.  I will not help another to their own self 
destruction however, and I definately refuse to be a witness to it.  I have 
had friends die in recovery and die of their addictions.  In either case I 
refused to be their to watch them do both.  I won't hel a person to their 
bottom.  Why should I enable them.  I will help a person to recovery but I'm 
not going to do their footwork for them.  I never tell my pigeons to call me 
everyday to ask me what decisions they should make.  I refuse to tell them 
what shoe to put on what foot first every morning.  When they do call me with 
a problem I ask them to sit and think it through for themselves.  I give a 
person a good question and their answers normally are freedom of personal 
choice.  I refuse to give someone unsolicited sustanance.  I don't need 
slaves.
If you give a man a fish you can feed him for a day.  If you teach that same 
man how to fish he can feed himself for a lifetime.  THink about it!
KJ>         The personal change it seems you are looking for in others is in
KJ> attitude and acceptance, and the fact that you posted this message
KJ> complaining about the complainers says something about that, too. ;)
Thank you for taking my inventory.  I hope it helped you keep the focus off 
your self and stay sober.  Well I guess that means that know my inventory has 
been taken I don't have to take it myself.  (I THINK NOT!)
Your's in Unity and Recovery
Edward S.
...Kill 'em all, and take no hostages.
--- GEcho 1.00
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