ù Quoting Bob Rudolph from a message to Ryan Bagueros  ù 
BR> Uhhh - you're ignoring MOST kids, who are middle class.  I paid for 
BR> every  minute of scholing that I had (less, incidentally, thn you had 
BR> probably) and I  appreciated it because I had to go out and get it 
BR> for myself.  NOBODY is  guaranteed a free ride (which appears to be 
And YOU are ignoring the lower-middle class, the working class and the lower 
class. I suppose these people don't count in your little world? Remember, I 
work at the university, and I see students' resumes, I see their life story. 
Hell, statistics alone can tell you this. Again, you are begging the question 
of class mobility. You are saying that everyone has a chance, if they work at 
it - in other words, we have class mobility in the United States.
From the Wall Stree Journal (quite definitely a pro-business/pro-capitalism 
newspaper): "But, Mr. Katz adds, 'People who tend to be in the penthouse 
spend 
80% of their lives in the penthouse. Those on the bottom floors spend 80% of 
their lives at the bottom.' So, despite America's enduring ability to provide 
many citizens the opportunity to get ahead, the rich really are getting 
richer,
and the poor really are getting poorer."
So, we have the facts of the situation: poverty and class stratification is 
increasing in this country, and a majority of minorities are living in 
poverty.
So, we can take your intepretation, which says that anyone can get ahead that 
just tries, and we are left with the conclusion that, therefore, blacks and 
other minorities who are living in poverty are either ignorant, lazy or 
unmotivated to get ahead. 
Or, we can take my interpretation, which says that the American dream is a 
lie 
intended to perpetuate the situation, and that the very nature of how things 
are organized necessitates this stratification. Because our country is 
founded 
on racism, the burden naturally falls on the minorities. So, my 
interpretation 
is that blacks and other minorities are not ignorant, or lazy, or 
unmotivated, 
but instead are constantly fighting against the barriers that exist in our 
society. 
Now, again, I've re-summarized the debate here without nit-picking the 
incidentals of what you're talking about. Can you do the same?
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