Hello mark,

On Monday July 02 2018 13:57, you wrote to me:

 MV>>>> DIAL
 MV>>>>  61- 0
 MV>>>> END

 ml>>> that won't work... a local has the 61-x stripped off...

 MV>> That's one way of calling a local number.

 ml> as tony just pointed out, this is true... i was under the impression
 ml> that that format would fail but apparently it works these days...
 ml> nothing was said about if it worked back in the '80s and '90s...

Tony wrote:

 TL> We could always dial the whole number,

 ml>>> so at best they'll be trying to dial a LD domestic number... our
 ml>>> system over here tells you you don't need to dial those extra
 ml>>> leading digits and then hangs up... so no collection even over
 ml>>> the LD wires which could cost more...

 MV>> Widen your horizon.

 ml> what do you think i've been doing by asking all these questions and
 ml> posting responses looking for correction??

So you really had no idea about how the telephone system works down under and
in most of Europe. You do not know about the leading zero in area codes and you
do not know that dialling the full number was alway possible in Australia.

That lack of knowledge did not stop you from claiming with 100% certainty for
the last two decades that it is impossible to accidentaly dial the Aussie
emergency number...

 MV>> The world of automatic telephony is bigger than what is covered
 MV>> by country code 1. In Europe and in Australia we can have a
 MV>> choice on how to dial local numbers. We can either just dial the
 MV>> local number or we can dial the ten digit sequence of the area
 MV>> code plus the local number.

 ml> areacodes are required here, now... they weren't maybe 10 years ago...

 MV>> Area codes are always dialled with a leading zero to distinguish
 MV>> them from local numbers.

 ml> we don't do that... 0 is the operator...

000 used to be the operator here. You do not want to automatically dial that by
accident either...

Actually it is very simple here. Much simpler than with you system of area
codes that are not easy to distinguish from ecchange codes by dumb robots.
Seeing that the middle digit of a three digit code is 0 or 1 is easy for a
human. Hard for an electromagnetic exchange.

Here it is easy. Strictly speaking the leading zero is not part of the area
code, but in layman speak it became part of it.

Here the telephone system is hierarchycal. Numbers on any level never start
with a 0. 0 is the access code to the next higher level.

Dialling a number that does not start with a 0, ends up at a local number. 0 is
the code to get out of the village/city/area. Another zero gets one out of the
country. In future a third 0 may be the code to get off the planet.

This was easy to implement in the age of electromagmagnetic selectors. On the
local exchange position 1 to 9 on the first rotary selector connect to the rest
of the local exchange. Position zero connect to lines going out of the exchange
to the rest of the world.

It also works one level down. On private branch exchanges, 0 is the code for an
outside line.

By always adding a leading zero to the area code, there can never be confusion
with exchange codes or local numbers.

 MV>>  There is no such thng as "LD wires" here.

 ml> how do you make LD calls to other countries, then?

Dial the international accesscode (00) followed by the country code, etc, etc..

 ml> LD calls travel differently than plain domestic or local calls ;)

Your system is different. You have the 1 prefix for LD calls. There is no
equivalent here.

 MV>> There is no penalty on calling a local number with the full ten
 MV>> digit sequence, the cost is the same.

 ml> interesting...

In the past it was not possible to dial the full number when  making a local
call. With the coming of electronics exchanges they became smart enough to
recognise a call destined for the own area code. Such a call is routed exactly
the same as a local call dialled without the area code.

 MV>> Calling Scott Little's system by dialling 02-9727-7775 works from
 MV>> within all of Australia at no extra cost.

 ml> i wonder what happens if they include the leading 61-? and using 0x
 ml> from everywhere in OZ works, then they only need a dial translation
 ml> table to strip 000- and a cost table to set a high cost for 000-
 ml> nubers to prevent POTS mailers from trying to dial them...

What makes you assume that every POTS mailer supports cost tables?

 MV>> The example works.

 ml> in this case, sure but more testing is needed by those with knowledge
 ml> of how it used to work and how it works today...

What more is there to test? Bj”rn asked for a translation table that would:

1) Allow an Aussie node to call his/her NC.
2) Allow dialling 000 from the nodelist.

I have done that. End of story.


Cheers, Michiel

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