Pete Snidal wrote in a message to All:
--> Note:
 PS> Forwarded (from: HOMEPOWR) by Pete Snidal using timEd.
Ok, we'll take it up in here...     :-)
 PS> Originally from Pete Snidal (1:354/910.0) to Roy J. Tellason. 
 PS> Original dated: Oct 03 '97, 08:19
 PS> Roy J. Tellason wrote in a message to Jim Dunmyer:
RJT> Jim Dunmyer wrote in a message to Roy J. Tellason:
 > Another consideration,  and one that I don't often see addressed 
 > with regard to electric vehicles,  is the power grid.  I can't 
 > remember where it was exactly,  but somewhere in my collection of 
 > Analog magazines there's an article that looked at that issue and 
 > came to the conclusion that in order to move to electric vehicles in 
 > this country we'd need to *double* the power grid,  in order to 
 > support current levels of usage.
 JD> That is something that's not often addressed by the electric
 JD> car evangelists. 
RJT> Yep!  I see mention of electric cars from time to time,  and
RJT> every time I bring up this point no one has any answer for
RJT> it...
 JD> The [daytime] charging stations could have flywheels or huge 
 JD> batteries so they'd draw most of their power during off-peak 
 JD> times, and home chargers could have timers, but you can only go 
 JD> so far.
 JD> Most folks don't think about how much energy can be easily 
 JD> stored/transported in a single tank of petroleum-based fuel. :-)
 PS> It seems to me that the biggest problem of running petroleum 
 PS> engines in cars is that the engines, if they are to produce 
 PS> enough power for the high-demand times, can't really be built 
 PS> to run efficiently at the low-demand times, such as idling in 
 PS> traffic (0 mph ideally would require 0 gal per mile), running 
 PS> downhill at any speed, or even maintaining a steady cruise on 
 PS> level ground.
 PS> Ideally, a fossil-fuel engine wants to be pulling around the 
 PS> middle of its power band for max economy.  This problem, to me, 
 PS> suggests, using small engines in conjuntion with battery power, 
 PS> in a gas-electric or diesel-electric car.  A small motor 
 PS> pumping hard (and therefore efficiently) all the time, keeping 
 PS> batteries charged at a rate which will keep them up between 
 PS> heavy and light-duty cycling.  Accelerating from lights, onto 
 PS> freeways, up hills would be provided for by the batteries 
 PS> supplementing the power of the motor, and the bats would then 
 PS> "catch up" during the low-demand times such as level cruise.  
 PS> And of course, the electric motors would also serve as 
 PS> generators, pumping into the battery load on deceleration and 
 PS> downhills, further saving the environment from brake dust - 
 PS> hey!, maybe we could even go back to Real Brake Linings.
What do you mean,  "go back to"? 
 PS> So, just imagine - a '70's-style "boat" running on a Chevy 
 PS> Sprint genset and a mess of batteries.
I drive a '70s-style "boat" -- and wouldn't mind at all the sort of economy 
that comes with a sprint.  How much battery do you think it would take,  
though?
 PS> Presumably, battery technology has improved to the point where 
 PS> this is possible.
Hybrids have been built,  already.  I'm not up on the details,  though.
 PS> Better yet, how about replacing all those smelly diesel busses, 
 PS> which spend so much of their time with the Jimmy belching black 
 PS> smoke as they inch their way along through the gridlock, with 
 PS> diesel-electrics, an little 2-71 efficiently pumping away, 
 PS> keeping the batteries up for whenever it actually has to climb 
 PS> a hill or hit the freeway for a few miles.  Just thinking about 
 PS> the fuel saving and the maintenance costs gives me a warm fuzzy 
 PS> feeling all over.
The first hybrid I remember reading about didn't use batteries,  but stored 
hydraulic pressure,  in a big tank that took up a bunch of the trunk,  to 
pressures up to around 300 psi if I remember right.  Each of the rear wheels 
had a hydraulic motor on it,  and the normal axle and rear end,  as well as 
the drive shaft and transmission were removed.  (Since they had that space,  
I wonder why they didn't put the tank where the transmission used to be?)  
This was back in the sixties somewhere that I read about this one.  They 
described how weird it was to get into the car,  turn on the key,  and drive 
off with no motor running,  though that motor would start up "by itself",  
when the pressure dropped too much.
I've heard of other hybrids which were done with batteries,  too,  though I 
can't say I've read of any in detail,  not like I'd like to,  anyhow.
Whether you go with electric,  hydraulic,  or whatever,  a few things are 
definitely needed.  You remove most of the existing drive train,  you need to 
install some sort of motors on the driving wheels (probably the rear wheels 
in anything *I* would own!  :-),  and you need something to drive the energy 
storage system.
For starters,  I don't know that it'd be necessary to replace the existing 
engine with something significantly smaller,  unless you *really* need that 
engine compartment space for batteries or whatever.
The big question in my mind is,  how practical is this sort of thing to do on 
an old car?  What sort of costs would you be looking at?  Would you need a 
machine shop,  or have to spend a lot of money at one?
email: roy.j.tellason%tanstaaf@frackit.com 
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