Hello Dale,

On Friday June 15 2018 00:54, you wrote to me:

 DS>  MVDV> The numbers do not mean very much if there is no record of how
 DS> the election  was conducted and and if there is no confidence that it
 DS> was  counducted in a fair and honest way. Elections conducted in

 DS> I cannot attest to that because I was not here at the time.  Were you?

No, I was not there. So why should I believe thet there was an fairt and honest
election? 
 MVDV>> secrecy do not help building confidence. I personally knew
 MVDV>> Henk Wevers. I met him about a dozen times. You have your
 MVDV>> numbers. I know what Henk Wevers told me.

 MVDV>> "Z2 rejected P4. We were betrayed."

 DS> So where is the information about the election for that statement?  Or
 DS> did Henk make a untilateral declaration without any formal election?

AFAIK there was indeed no formal election in Z2. There may have been an
informal poll of some kind, followed by a decree by the ZC. Not uncommon by
then and rule by decree is still how it is done in Z2. Up to a point...

 MVDV>> Z1 rammed P4 down our throats by right of might.

 DS> You may think that, but the election involved all the then existent
 DS> zones, and Z2 participated in that election.

Z2 never agreed to the procedure followed to adopt a new policy. Z2 rejected
the proposal before it was brought up fopr a vote. So wgy do you say Z2
participated in th election?

Where is the list of *Cs who voted?
Where is the list of passwordd of who voted what?

 DS> Perhaps a majority of the Z2 *Cs voted against P4, perhaps not --
 DS> there is no record of that one way or the other,

There is no record. Period. All we have is the figures as published in
Fidonews. 227 seven votes out of 286 votes in favour. With 175 eligible votes
from Z1.

But why should we trust those figures? Who was the vote collector? Who was the
Veryfier? How were those votes cast? By crash mail to the vote colector?
Unlikely with the extreme high cost of international calls. Routed netmail?
That ios subject to tampering.

What was stopping whoever published these figures to just make then up? What
safeguards were there to prevent that?

Z2 rejected participating in the election. With 175 eligible votes in Z1 and
286 votes cast where did those 111 non Z1 votes votes come from?

One way or another, forcing a party to abide by the result of an election they
rejected beforehand is ramming it down the throat.

 DS> nor does it matter. It was an election fidonet wide, and the majority
 DS> of the votes were cast in favor.

Duh.... Z2 doesnt do it that way.


Cheers, Michiel

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