From: "Rich" 

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   Some businesses give their employees more freedom than others.  If =
the employees are good the extra freedom is usually good.  If they are =
bad than usually it is not.  In customer service I find that a lack of =
freedom is usually bad.  Just try telling my DSL provider that there =
service is down without an insistance to follow a script that assumes =
that all problems are the customers.

   And when you use the term rep I believe you are being intentionally =
vague.  A sales rep is different from a customer service rep is = different
from a product support rep is different from most anyone else = you would
try to claim is a rep.

Rich

  "Geo"  wrote in message
news:428f7909{at}w3.nls.net...
  There are businesses where the employees are allowed to give a =
customer advice that may not be "good for the business". For
example = when someone asks me about Netlink dsl service in an area where
we have = no other options except dialup, I regularly suggest they go to
cable = instead of pushing our "high speed" dialup offerings. Not
because it's = better for Netlink but because it's better for ME in that I
can sleep = better knowing I gave them the best advice I could. Sometimes
that ends = up being good for netlink in that word that we are honest gets
spread, = sometimes we lose a possible dialup customer.

  As for the windows catalog, did I not say MS rep? Somehow I don't =
think you will find them to be the same thing. But ok, point accepted, =
Microsoft does tell people about all the stuff that's available if you =
use the catalog.

  Geo.
    "Rich"  wrote in message news:428f5648{at}w3.nls.net...
       With any business at the extreme you will get to "because it is =
good for the business".  The difference lies in how you do this and =
whether it works.  I see businesses make choices that are customer =
unfriendly though easier or cheaper for them.  I try to avoid these and =
question their long term success.

       In answer to your false claims that follow consider that on the =
Windows XP Start menu there is a menu item labeled Windows Catalog that =
takes you to a site with almost entirely non-Microsoft products.  In the =
media player category there are 126 items.  See =
http://www.windowsmarketplace.com/results.aspx?bcatid=3D285.

    Rich

      "Geo"  wrote in message =
news:428f2a27{at}w3.nls.net...
      Well ok I see your point but the motivation is not "because its =
good for customers" the motivation is "because its good for
MS". The = motivation is really no different than with car companies.
Go ask a = microsoft rep about software for windows like say a media player
and = they aren't going to tell you about anything but the MS versions and
if = you talk to the people who make that media player they are going to
tell = you MS is no different than the car companies who don't want you
buying = non-OEM parts.

      Geo.
        "Rich"  wrote in message news:428e013c{at}w3.nls.net...
           Yes, because it is good for customers.  Do that and you get =
more customers buying more product.

        Rich

          "Geo"  wrote in message =
news:428db969{at}w3.nls.net...
          Because it is good for customers? More like because it drives =
windows sales (what good is an OS that can only run MS software?)

          If MS was really doing it because it is good for customers, =
there would be a linux version of Office.

          Geo.
            "Rich"  wrote in message news:428d8235{at}w3.nls.net...
               There is an aftermarket but little supported by the =
manufacters.  My car manufacturer only wants me to buy parts they sell =
and service from them.  I can go elsewhere but not with their aid.  In =
contrast Microsoft encourages hardware and software manufactures to =
develop products for Windows even when this is in competition to = products
Microsoft offers.  Why?  Because it is good for the customers.  = It is
easy to build on Windows and with Windows.  Why do you think there = is
such a large market for Windows and products for Windows?

            Rich

              "Geo"  wrote in message =
news:428b1443$1{at}w3.nls.net...
              Oh right, you are stuck running goodyear tires and OEM =
brakepads and there is no such thing as an aftermarket windshield.=20

              My point remains, when I go and download sygate I get the =
current version, when I download AVG I get the current version (perhaps =
not the current definitions but the software is at least the latest =
build), etc. Even if you do find some software where the initial = download
isn't current and requires a patch, it doesn't require that you = patch it
twice just to get up to date.

              Geo.
                "Rich"  wrote in message
news:428ab5cb{at}w3.nls.net...
                   Nice spin.  Maybe you should use cars as an example =
again and how the car manufactures do little so support a third party =
after market.  Which do you think is more customer oriented now?

                Rich

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   Some
businesses give their =
employees=20
more freedom than others.  If the employees are good the extra =
freedom is=20
usually good.  If they are bad than usually it is not. 
In = customer=20
service I find that a lack of freedom is usually bad.  Just try =
telling my=20
DSL provider that there service is down without an insistance to follow = a script=20
that assumes that all problems are the customers.
 
   And when
you use the term =
rep I=20
believe you are being intentionally vague.  A sales rep is =
different from a=20
customer service rep is different from a product support rep is = different from=20
most anyone else you would try to claim is a rep.
 
Rich
 

  "Geo" <georger{at}nls.net>">mailto:georger{at}nls.net">georger{at}nls.net>
wrote=20
  in message news:428f7909{at}w3.nls.net...
  There are businesses where the =
employees are=20
  allowed to give a customer advice that may not be "good for the =
business". For=20
  example when someone asks me about Netlink dsl service in an area =
where we=20
  have no other options except dialup, I regularly suggest they go to =
cable=20
  instead of pushing our "high speed" dialup offerings. Not because it's =
better=20
  for Netlink but because it's better for ME in that I can sleep better =
knowing=20
  I gave them the best advice I could. Sometimes that ends up being good =
for=20
  netlink in that word that we are honest gets spread, sometimes we lose =
a=20
  possible dialup customer.
   
  As for the windows catalog,
did I not =
say MS rep?=20
  Somehow I don't think you will find them to be the same thing. But ok, =
point=20
  accepted, Microsoft does tell people about all the stuff that's =
available if=20
  you use the catalog.
   
  Geo.
  

    "Rich" <{at}> wrote in message news:428f5648{at}w3.nls.net...
       With
any business at =
the extreme=20
    you will get to "because it is good for the
business".  =
The=20
    difference lies in how you do this and whether it works.  I see =

    businesses make choices that are customer unfriendly though easier =
or=20
    cheaper for them.  I try to avoid these and question their long =
term=20
    success.
     
       In
answer to your =
false claims=20
    that follow consider that on the Windows XP Start menu there is a =
menu item=20
    labeled Windows Catalog that takes you to a site with almost =
entirely=20
    non-Microsoft products.  In the media player category there are =
126=20
    items.  See http=">http://www.windowsmarketplace.com/results.aspx?bcatid=3D285">http=
://www.windowsmarketplace.com/results.aspx?bcatid=3D285.=

     
    Rich
     
    

      "Geo" <georger{at}nls.net>=20">mailto:georger{at}nls.net">georger{at}nls.net>=20
      wrote in message news:428f2a27{at}w3.nls.net...
      Well ok I see your point but the =
motivation=20
      is not "because its good for customers" the motivation is
"because =
its=20
      good for MS". The motivation is really no different than with car=20
      companies. Go ask a microsoft rep about software for windows like =
say a=20
      media player and they aren't going to tell you about anything but =
the MS=20
      versions and if you talk to the people who make that media player =
they are=20
      going to tell you MS is no different than the car companies who =
don't want=20
      you buying non-OEM parts.
       
      Geo.
      

        "Rich" <{at}> wrote in message news:428e013c{at}w3.nls.net...
          
Yes, because it is =
good for=20
        customers.  Do that and you get more customers buying more=20
        product.
         
        Rich
         
        

          "Geo" <georger{at}nls.net>">mailto:georger{at}nls.net">georger{at}nls.net>
wrote =
in message=20
          news:428db969{at}w3.nls.net...
          Because it is good for =
customers? More=20
          like because it drives windows sales (what good is an OS that =
can only=20
          run MS software?)
           
          If MS was really doing it =
because it is=20
          good for customers, there would be a linux version of=20
          Office.
           
          Geo.
          

            "Rich" <{at}> wrote in message news:428d8235{at}w3.nls.net...
               There is an =
aftermarket=20
            but little supported by the manufacters.  My car =
manufacturer=20
            only wants me to buy parts they sell and service from =
them.  I=20
            can go elsewhere but not with their aid.  In contrast =
Microsoft=20
            encourages hardware and software manufactures to develop =
products=20
            for Windows even when this is in competition to products =
Microsoft=20
            offers.  Why?  Because it is good for the =
customers. =20
            It is easy to build on Windows and with Windows.  Why =
do you=20
            think there is such a large market for Windows and products =
for=20
            Windows?
             
            Rich
             
            

              "Geo" <georger{at}nls.net>">mailto:georger{at}nls.net">georger{at}nls.net>
=
wrote in=20
              message news:428b1443$1{at}w3.nls.net...
              Oh right, you are stuck =
running=20
              goodyear tires and OEM brakepads and there is no such =
thing as an=20
              aftermarket windshield. 
               
              My point remains, when I =
go and=20
              download sygate I get the current version, when I download =
AVG I=20
              get the current version (perhaps not the current =
definitions but=20
              the software is at least the latest build), etc. Even if =
you do=20
              find some software where the initial =
download isn't=20
              current and requires a patch, it doesn't require that you =
patch it=20
              twice just to get up to date.
               
              Geo.
              

                "Rich" <{at}> wrote in
message news:428ab5cb{at}w3.nls.net...
                   Nice =
spin.  Maybe=20
                you should use cars as an example again and how the car=20
                manufactures do little so support a third party after=20
                market.  Which do you think is more customer =
oriented=20
                now?
                Rich
                =
 

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