> Hobb's "Viking" world did not mention guards, and in any case,
> how would a few older men past their use-by for a-viking stand up
> to ship full of hoons just back from three months of loot, rape,
> and pillage?

MB> Who in their right mind would go pillaging without leaving
MB> guards? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. 

 You are begging the question... my point is that Hobbs was not in
her right mind - that the world she built would not work.

MB> Besides, Viking men did their best to die in battle, since they
MB> would otherwise go to Hel. 

 So *that* was where Mohammed stole the idea from! But he used the
carrot  (Paradise, houris) rather than the stick (no continuous
wassail).

> The idea of a Helga-type woman giving Hagar the Horrible a hit
> over the head goes well in a comic strip, but not in the real
> world.

MB> You need to meet more women. At least Norwegian ones. We're not
MB> talking about every common household maid here, anyway. There
MB> are Alpha women out there too, you know ;) 

 (grin) I keep well away from anyone named Helga. Australian women
are more subtle. They still keep control, but they let us think we do.
There is no need to actually hit us, and they never show their true
colours except at the Olympic Games when they win everything.

> admit that there are a few cases of domestic violence where the
> woman is the aggressor, but there are a few cases of mice
> attacking cats (I suppose). It doesn't men that mice dominate
> cats.

MB> Recent studies indicate that domestic violence is balanced
MB> between the genders. The women is the agressor as often as the
MB> man, but men don't report it as often.

 Rubbish! That sort of "study" depends on the definition of violence
and aggression. How many men end up in hospital after domestic
violence, or wear permanent scars? To me (and anyone who understands
agression) agression is along way past yelling abuse and sly nagging.
It usually involves fists, boots and sticks with the occasional knife
(or if you are American, an AK47 assult rifle).

MB> Also, women are overrepresented amongst perpetrators of sexual
MB> homicide. 

 ROFL! Sexual homicide? Is that death by rooting? In which case I
agree totally. Women are dangerous that way.

 I really don't know what you mean by sexual homicide, but I thank
you for the images it creates.

 FX: slaps own face. Bob! Snap out of it!

MB> I was not trying to defend Hobb. I was just saying that such
MB> societies are possible. It just requires special circumstances,
MB> or stronger women. 

> Yes... and that works for the first trip. Then they come home
> with the loot, havign raped and pillaged their way through ten
> counties, feeling horny... so who stops them now?

MB> Are you married?

 What's married got to do with it? It's been a while now, but what
I can remember of Hobb's pseudo-Viking world, was that women held all
the power and the property, while the men went off to work, pillaging
and looting (no mention of the rape detail, but I love that old
Viking joke so I added it). I don't think marriage existed... it was
that old Eskimo female-line thing that feminist writers can't resist,
wasn't it? 

 I have no problem with an SF story that reverses male and female
roles, but I insist on a world that is consistent and cohesive. I read
another SF with exactly the same proposition, except that Kathrine
Kerr gave *reasons* for the reversal that hung together (alien
genetics and religion). Her feminist matriachial world made sense, and
incidentally made the feminist point, while Hobbs merely annoyed me.

 Are you saying that the *real* Viking world left women in control?
You seem to be arguing that because Helgas are large they are also
dominant, but that leaves you with the reality. What's size got to
do with it? Nordic men were big too, in that era. The Vikings had an
open society, my favourite is the Viking approach to slavery that was
unique, but don't tell me it was a feminist society or a matriachy!
That's ridiculous, and so was Hobb's proposition. Tomake her world
work, she needed to put in a bit more work... like Kerr did.

Regards,
Bob



    

--- BQWK Alpha 0.5