From: "Rich" 

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   I didn't question that value of requirements only this specific one =
for which you stated that you are required to use a mechanism for which =
the end user interface is not available or practically so, or so you =
claim.

Rich

  "Adam" <""4thwormcastfromthemolehill\"{at}the
field.near the bridge"> =
wrote in message news:433c626d{at}w3.nls.net...
  Rich wrote:
  >    Do you really have a requirement that you must use something for=20
  > which implementations or practical implementations do not exist?  =
Who=20
  > sets these requirements for you?
  >

  Real requirement. & What is more it may well be that we will be =
setting=20
  the stds for "e-health" worldwide. With Katrina youz guyz discovered=20
  that keeping medical records on paper in a hospital/surgery basement =
is=20
  not always a good thing.

  WRT the requirements, the main one is that it has to be an open std =
etc=20
  such that some poor bloddy angolans or other 3'rd world country don't=20
  get stung (as well as that fact that we don't want to be).



  >    I did try the search you suggested and found=20
  > http://www.govtalk.gov.uk/documents/TSCv6.2_2005_7_14_final.pdf =
which=20
  > contains the statement
  > =20
  >=20
  >        1. =95 As with other applications e-Forms have to comply with =
XML,
  >           but no specific e-Forms specifications are mandated in the =
e-GIF.=20
  >


  We have others. I will see if there is a public doc which details =
this.

  The nearest I can find is hedged in Sir Humphrey-speak

  http://www.govtalk.gov.uk/faq/faq.asp?section=3De%2DGIF&topic=3D55

  Q. What electronic forms products are e-GIF compliant?

  F"orms that are e-GIF compliant must be able to exchange data in XML =
or=20
  export data into XML. The applicability of the XForms specifications =
(as=20
  defined by W3C) to the e-GIF and other potential XML forms solutions =
are=20
  under review by the e-Forms Working Group."

  It needs to be seen in relation to other QA such as:

  Q.  Is the e-GIF likely to specify open standards for distributed =
computing?

  The e-GIF specifies standards for Web services; it focuses on =
technology=20
  which is broadly consistent with standards used within the Internet. =
As=20
  a government wide service level architecture matures, further =
standards=20
  for web services and common application services will be evaluated for =

  inclusion in future version of the e-GIF.

  Note in the first Q&A "XForms specifications (as defined by W3C)"

  I will leave it at that. BTW The move to XML means a move to open stds =

  in gov terms. The recent decision wrt OpenDocument over your side =
o'the=20
  pond is but one. In health terms wait & watch.


  However just out of interest could you answer the question I asked=20
  originally?

  When will MS be natively supporting XForms in IE or will it be a =
choice=20
  of Moz or  IE + plugin such as the Novell one?

  Adam

  > =20
  > Rich
  > =20
  >=20
  >     "Adam"      > wrote in message
  >     news:433baaff$1{at}w3.nls.net...
  >     Mostly a question for Rich S, but others can join in (like I can =
stop
  >     you ).
  >=20
  >     We have a requirement that going forward most of our forms =
should be of
  >     the XHTML+XFORM variety (google on UK gov e-gif & xform).
  >=20
  >     Moz & others seem to be working towards native support for =
XForms but
  >     all I can find wrt IE are some plugins which will undoubtably do =
the
  >     job
  >     but require downloadng etc.etc.
  >=20
  >     Equally OpenOffice2 has a quite good XForms builder & editor & =
there is
  >     a fairly neat thing from IBM for eclipse.
  >=20
  >     However can find zilch from MS. Any new wrt IE7 or even your MS =
dev
  >     tools & XForms?
  >=20
  >=20
  >     Adam
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   I didn't
question that =
value of=20
requirements only this specific one for which you stated that you are = required=20
to use a mechanism for which the end user interface is not available or=20
practically so, or so you claim.
 
Rich
 

  "Adam" <""4thwormcastfromthemole=">mailto:"4thwormcastfromthemolehill\"{at}the'>"4thwormcastfromthemole=
hill\"{at}the=20
  field.near the bridge"> wrote in message news:433c626d{at}w3.nls.net...Ri=
ch=20
  wrote:>    Do you really have
a requirement that =
you=20
  must use something for > which implementations or practical=20
  implementations do not exist?  Who > sets these =
requirements for=20
  you?>Real requirement. &
What is more it may well =
be that=20
  we will be setting the stds for "e-health" worldwide.
With Katrina =
youz=20
  guyz discovered that keeping medical records on paper in a=20
  hospital/surgery basement is not always a good
thing.WRT =
the=20
  requirements, the main one is that it has to be an open std etc =
such that=20
  some poor bloddy angolans or other 3'rd world country don't get =
stung (as=20
  well as that fact that we don't want to=20
 
be).>   
I did try the search you =
suggested=20
  and found > 
=20" target="new">http://www.govtalk.gov.uk/documents/TSCv6.2_2005_7_14_final.pdf=20
  which > contains the
statement>  >=20
 
>       
1. =95 As with =
other=20
  applications e-Forms have to comply with=20
  =
XML,>          
= but=20
  no specific e-Forms specifications are mandated in the e-GIF.=20
  >We have others. I will
see if there is a public =
doc which=20
  details this.The nearest I can find is hedged in Sir=20
  Humphrey-speakhttp://www.govtalk.gov.uk/faq/faq.asp?section=3De%2DGIF&topic=
=3D55">http://www.govtalk.gov.uk/faq/faq.asp?section=3De%2DGIF&topic=3D=
55Q.=20
  What electronic forms products are e-GIF
compliant?F"orms that =
are=20
  e-GIF compliant must be able to exchange data in XML or export =
data into=20
  XML. The applicability of the XForms specifications (as defined by =
W3C) to=20
  the e-GIF and other potential XML forms solutions are under review =
by the=20
  e-Forms Working Group."It needs to be seen in
relation to =
other QA=20
  such as:Q.  Is the e-GIF likely to specify
open standards =
for=20
  distributed computing?The e-GIF specifies standards for Web =
services;=20
  it focuses on technology which is broadly consistent with =
standards used=20
  within the Internet. As a government wide service level =
architecture=20
  matures, further standards for web services and common application =

  services will be evaluated for inclusion in future version of the=20
  e-GIF.Note in the first Q&A "XForms
specifications (as =
defined by=20
  W3C)"I will leave it at that. BTW The move to
XML means a move =
to open=20
  stds in gov terms. The recent decision wrt OpenDocument over your =
side=20
  o'the pond is but one. In health terms wait &=20
  watch.However just out of interest could
you answer the =
question I=20
  asked originally?When will MS be natively
supporting =
XForms in IE=20
  or will it be a choice of Moz or  IE + plugin such as the =
Novell=20
  one?Adam> 
> Rich>  =
>=20
  >    
"Adam" <mmmmm_beer_mmmm_donuts{at}moesmailto:mmmmm_beer_mmmm_donuts{at}moes">mmmmm_beer_mmmm_donuts{at}moes
A>>    =20
  <mailto:mmmmm_beer_mmmm_donuts=">mailto:mmmmm_beer_mmmm_donuts{at}moes">mailto:mmmmm_beer_mmmm_donuts=
{at}moes>>=20
  wrote in message>     news:433baaff$1{at}w3.nls.net...=
>    =20
  Mostly a question for Rich S, but others can join in (like I can=20
  stop>     you
<G>).>=20
  >     We have a
requirement that going =
forward most=20
  of our forms should be
of>     the =
XHTML+XFORM=20
  variety (google on UK gov e-gif & xform).>=20
  >     Moz &
others seem to be working =
towards=20
  native support for XForms
but>     all I =
can find=20
  wrt IE are some plugins which will undoubtably do=20
  the>     =
job>     but=20
  require downloadng etc.etc.>
>     =
Equally=20
  OpenOffice2 has a quite good XForms builder & editor & there=20
  is>     a fairly
neat thing from IBM for=20
  eclipse.>
>     However can find
=
zilch from=20
  MS. Any new wrt IE7 or even your MS =
dev>     tools=20
  & XForms?> >
>    =20
Adam

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