RB> So, tell us, Rich, what *is* a person supposed to do? When
RB> we started this, all 
Simple you take a part of each pay check and invest it.
I started before I was even out of high school.  I had
them take so much out of each of my pay check to buy a
US savings bond.  Not the greatest investment but
better than spending it.
After I got married I started investing $50/month which
is a little over $10 a week.  As I started making more
money I started putting more money into my investments.
If I had kept working I would have done the some the
entire time.  By the time I was 50 I would have had
more money than most of the retirees today will ever
see.
I have NEVER found someone who couldn't put at least $5
a week away.  For some it did mean skipping a meal or
two but it never hurt their waist line.  That's $260 in
a year, it doesn't look like much but if you look at
how much you will have after 20 years with simple
interest you can imagine how much you will have if you
invest it.
RB> you said was work hard and try and you'll get ahead. Now
I have NEVER said that.  You work hard and all you get
is a sore back.  If you want to get ahead you have to
use your HEAD.
RB> you're saying you can  only get ahead if you keep your money
RB> from going to the government (dubious  idea at best), become
No I said if you depend on the government you are going
to get the shaft.  You have to use what money you can
fight from it to make your future.
RB> a union scab by being the only person to not pay union 
I was raised in a union house, I have worked in union
shops and I have worked in nonunion shops and I will
tell you that I brought home more money in EVERY non
union shop then I ever did in a union one.
I've had a shop stewart who wouldn't stand up for me
even though the machine I was running had two of the
three safeties broken.
I had another that wouldn't stand up even though the
foreman clearly had two favorites who got all the good
jobs.
I could go on but that's enough to let you know that
the union TODAY is nothing more then a bunch of people
who want to make a little (or a lot depending on their
place in the union pack) more money w/o working for it.
If I could have NOT paid union dues and invested all of
that money then I'd be WAY ahead of where I am today.
RB> dues, whatever. What could be more American than being an
RB> auto worker or a  steelworker? 
How about being independent and not relying on others
to take care of you or your future?
RB> The case for an opportunity-rich America is looking less and
RB> less truthful.  
Only for those who are looking in the wrong places.
You're not going to get rich if you plan to work in a
factory for 20 years and retire with SS and a union
pension plan.
Your not going to go any where today w/o some kind of
education.  The days of the strong back lifting you to
success are gone.  I heard a statistics the other day
that said that today it takes 2% of the people in the
US to produce all the food we need.  It takes 5% of the
people in the US to produce all the "things" we need.
That means that the other 93% are either going to have
to work in the service industry or in the "knowledge"
industry.
When a company can pay a good (for them) wage in a
foreign country, pay for transporting the goods and
still sell it cheeper and make a profit than if they
produce it in the US you have to know that the
manufacturing jobs have topped out here.
Before you start with all that "starvation wages" stuff
think of it this way.  Let's say you make $50,000 a
year.  Is that a lot of money?  If you live in a rural
of the Ozarks in Missouri it is.  But if you live in
NYC or Palm Springs it isn't!  In Missouri you can get
an all you can eat meal with drink for around $7.  In
Palm Springs you probably couldn't get a Big Mac, fries
and a drink for that.  Cost of living.
Now if you go to an even larger extreme and say that
you are now living in Haiti.  You'd probably be
considered really rich with your $50,000.  You could
have a big house, a maid, a butler and a cook.  For $7
you could probably get a three or four course meal.
So when you hear that company X is paying its workers
in country Y a $1 a day you have to wonder what that $5
a week will buy.  AAMOF I saw a PBS show on some
African country.  One of the things that caught my
attention was they said that the average YEARLY income
was $52!  That's a dollar a WEEK.  Our $5 a week worker
would be making five times the average wage.  I'd would
love to be making five times the average wage in the
US.
                      Remember:  Freedom isn't Free!
--- timEd-B11
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