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echo: educator
to: MICHAEL MARTINEZ
from: RON MCDERMOTT
date: 1996-08-01 08:45:00
subject: IVAN ILLICH 2/2

so?  What if you're wrong?  Say "oops, nevermind"?
MM>Really ,you should read Illich's book.  He does more justice to this
MM>topic and has thought about it much more than I have.
Michael, here's the deal... What you're proposing as an IDEAL
is ok; it's an interesting philosophical argument, but I 
don't see any real system involved here.  It seems like, "Oh
heck, let's just scrap everything because it isn't perfect,
and let kids do whatever the heck they want - I'm SURE it'll
all work out".  Well, yes, it WILL all work out, but to what
end and at what cost?
A lot of inner-city kids simply will not go to school at all;
at least now they go sometimes and learn a little bit of what
school offers.  Those kids will learn to survive alright; 
they will become better muggers, thieves, burglars, etc....
A large percentage of latino girls won't be there because the
culture doesn't go in much for education for latinas... Now
what kind of jobs will they be able to get, hold?  This 
education of the streets isn't going to produce many people
in technical areas, or skill areas... You still need to have
teachers, presumeably better ones than now; how do you plan
to GET them?  You going to double the pay to attract really
good people?  I don't see any specifics, just a lot of
philosophical posturing; something we teachers see a LOT of,
and most of it isn't worth spit when you bring it into a 
classroom.  Sometimes this is because it's simply wrongheaded,
sometimes because the support isn't there, sometimes because
it addresses a "problem" which doesn't exist...
The idea that, left to their own devices, people will seek an
"education" that will allow them to be "successful", without
regard to little details like where they live, what their
family is like, their financial situation, the financial
situation of the community, etc is just pie in the sky stuff.
It won't work any better than socialism does when it leaves
the realm of theory and is put into practice.  People just
aren't basically industrious or altruistic; if they WERE, it
would be a better world all around...
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