From: "Rich" 

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   I understand your question.  It is the mandate you have that I find =
humorous.  Don't you?

Rich

  "Adam" <""4thwormcastfromthemolehill\"{at}the
field.near the bridge"> =
wrote in message news:433cfea4{at}w3.nls.net...
  Rich wrote:
  >    I didn't question that value of requirements only this specific =
one=20
  > for which you stated that you are required to use a mechanism for =
which=20
  > the end user interface is not available or practically so, or so you =
claim.
  > =20

  Arrrg Rich you really are a tit at times. I am asking a =
straightforward=20
  question here regarding X-Forms.

  I take it by your lack of an answer that you either have no idea what =
MS=20
  is up wrt W3C XForms support in IE or you do know & the answer is that =

  IE will not support XForms natively & thus we will have to recomend =
the=20
  Novell IE plugin.

  Otherwise you'd have provided a MS url.

  Adam



  > Rich
  > =20
  >=20
  >     "Adam" <""4thwormcastfromthemolehill\"{at}the
  >     
field.near the =
bridge">
  >     wrote in message news:433c626d{at}w3.nls.net...
  >     Rich wrote:
  >      >    Do you really have a requirement that you must use =
something for
  >      > which implementations or practical implementations do not =
exist?=20
  >     Who
  >      > sets these requirements for you?
  >      >
  >=20
  >     Real requirement. & What is more it may well be that we will be =
setting
  >     the stds for "e-health" worldwide. With Katrina youz guyz =
discovered
  >     that keeping medical records on paper in a hospital/surgery =
basement is
  >     not always a good thing.
  >=20
  >     WRT the requirements, the main one is that it has to be an open =
std etc
  >     such that some poor bloddy angolans or other 3'rd world country =
don't
  >     get stung (as well as that fact that we don't want to be).
  >=20
  >=20
  >=20
  >      >    I did try the search you suggested and found
  >      > =
http://www.govtalk.gov.uk/documents/TSCv6.2_2005_7_14_final.pdf
  >     which
  >      > contains the statement
  >      >=20
  >      >
  >      >        1. =95 As with other applications e-Forms have to =
comply
  >     with XML,
  >      >           but no specific e-Forms specifications are mandated =
in
  >     the e-GIF.
  >      >
  >=20
  >=20
  >     We have others. I will see if there is a public doc which =
details this.
  >=20
  >     The nearest I can find is hedged in Sir Humphrey-speak
  >=20
  >     =
http://www.govtalk.gov.uk/faq/faq.asp?section=3De%2DGIF&topic=3D55
  >     =
http://www.govtalk.gov.uk/faq/faq.asp?section=3De%2DGIF&topic=3D55>
  >=20
  >     Q. What electronic forms products are e-GIF compliant?
  >=20
  >     F"orms that are e-GIF compliant must be able to exchange data in =
XML or
  >     export data into XML. The applicability of the XForms =
specifications
  >     (as
  >     defined by W3C) to the e-GIF and other potential XML forms =
solutions
  >     are
  >     under review by the e-Forms Working Group."
  >=20
  >     It needs to be seen in relation to other QA such as:
  >=20
  >     Q.  Is the e-GIF likely to specify open standards for =
distributed
  >     computing?
  >=20
  >     The e-GIF specifies standards for Web services; it focuses on
  >     technology
  >     which is broadly consistent with standards used within the =
Internet. As
  >     a government wide service level architecture matures, further =
standards
  >     for web services and common application services will be =
evaluated for
  >     inclusion in future version of the e-GIF.
  >=20
  >     Note in the first Q&A "XForms specifications (as defined by =
W3C)"
  >=20
  >     I will leave it at that. BTW The move to XML means a move to =
open stds
  >     in gov terms. The recent decision wrt OpenDocument over your =
side o'the
  >     pond is but one. In health terms wait & watch.
  >=20
  >=20
  >     However just out of interest could you answer the question I =
asked
  >     originally?
  >=20
  >     When will MS be natively supporting XForms in IE or will it be a =
choice
  >     of Moz or  IE + plugin such as the Novell one?
  >=20
  >     Adam
  >=20
  >      >=20
  >      > Rich
  >      >=20
  >      >
  >      >     "Adam"      
  >      >     > wrote in message
  >      >     news:433baaff$1{at}w3.nls.net...
  >      >     Mostly a question for Rich S, but others can join in =
(like I
  >     can stop
  >      >     you ).
  >      >
  >      >     We have a requirement that going forward most of our =
forms
  >     should be of
  >      >     the XHTML+XFORM variety (google on UK gov e-gif & xform).
  >      >
  >      >     Moz & others seem to be working towards native support =
for
  >     XForms but
  >      >     all I can find wrt IE are some plugins which will =
undoubtably
  >     do the
  >      >     job
  >      >     but require downloadng etc.etc.
  >      >
  >      >     Equally OpenOffice2 has a quite good XForms builder & =
editor
  >     & there is
  >      >     a fairly neat thing from IBM for eclipse.
  >      >
  >      >     However can find zilch from MS. Any new wrt IE7 or even =
your
  >     MS dev
  >      >     tools & XForms?
  >      >
  >      >
  >      >     Adam
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   I understand your =
question.  It=20
is the mandate you have that I find humorous.  Don't =
you?
 
Rich
 

  "Adam" <""4thwormcastfromthemole=">mailto:"4thwormcastfromthemolehill\"{at}the'>"4thwormcastfromthemole=
hill\"{at}the=20
  field.near the bridge"> wrote in message news:433cfea4{at}w3.nls.net...Ri=
ch=20
  wrote:>    I didn't question
that value of =
requirements=20
  only this specific one > for which you stated that you are =
required to=20
  use a mechanism for which > the end user interface is not =
available or=20
  practically so, or so you claim.> 
Arrrg Rich you =
really=20
  are a tit at times. I am asking a straightforward question here =
regarding=20
  X-Forms.I take it by your lack of an answer that you either =
have no=20
  idea what MS is up wrt W3C XForms support in IE or you do know =
& the=20
  answer is that IE will not support XForms natively & thus we =
will have=20
  to recomend the Novell IE plugin.Otherwise
you'd have =
provided a=20
  MS
url.Adam>
Rich>  >=20
  >    
"Adam" <""4thwormcastfromthemole=">mailto:"4thwormcastfromthemolehill\"{at}the'>"4thwormcastfromthemole=
hill\"{at}the>    =20
  <mailto:"4thwormcastfrom=">mailto:"4thwormcastfromthemolehill\"{at}the'>mailto:"4thwormcastfrom=
themolehill\"{at}the>=20
  field.near the
bridge">>    
wrote in =
message news:433c626d{at}w3.nls.net...>=
    =20
  Rich wrote:>      =
>    Do=20
  you really have a requirement that you must use something=20
  for>     
> which implementations =
or=20
  practical implementations do not exist? =
>    =20
  Who>     
> sets these requirements =
for=20
  you?>     
>>=20
  >     Real
requirement. & What is more =
it may=20
  well be that we will be
setting>     the =
stds for=20
  "e-health" worldwide. With Katrina youz guyz=20
  discovered>     that
keeping medical =
records on=20
  paper in a hospital/surgery basement =
is>     not=20
  always a good thing.>
>     WRT the=20
  requirements, the main one is that it has to be an open std=20
  etc>     such that
some poor bloddy =
angolans or=20
  other 3'rd world country
don't>     get =
stung (as=20
  well as that fact that we don't want to be).>
> > =

  >     
>    I did =
try the=20
  search you suggested and
found>      =
> 
&g" target="new">http://www.govtalk.gov.uk/documents/TSCv6.2_2005_7_14_final.pdf&g=
t;    =20
  which>     
> contains the=20
 
statement>     
>=20
  >     =20
  >>     =20
 
>       
1. =95 As with other =
applications=20
  e-Forms have to
comply>     with=20
  XML,>     =20
 
>          
but =
no=20
  specific e-Forms specifications are mandated=20
  in>     the=20
 
e-GIF.>     
>> >=20
  >     We have
others. I will see if there =
is a=20
  public doc which details this.> =
>     The=20
  nearest I can find is hedged in Sir Humphrey-speak>=20
  >     http://www.govtalk.gov.uk/faq/faq.asp?section=3De%2DGIF&topic=
=3D55">http://www.govtalk.gov.uk/faq/faq.asp?section=3De%2DGIF&topic=3D=
55>    =20
  <http://www.govtalk.gov.uk/faq/faq.asp?section=3De%2DGIF&topic=
=3D55">http://www.govtalk.gov.uk/faq/faq.asp?section=3De%2DGIF&topic=3D=
55>>=20
  >     Q. What
electronic forms products are =
e-GIF=20
  compliant?>
>     F"orms that
are =
e-GIF=20
  compliant must be able to exchange data in XML=20
  or>     export data
into XML. The =
applicability of=20
  the XForms
specifications>    =20
  (as>     defined by
W3C) to the e-GIF and =
other=20
  potential XML forms
solutions>    =20
  are>     under
review by the e-Forms =
Working=20
  Group.">
>     It needs to be
seen =
in=20
  relation to other QA such as:>
>     =

  Q.  Is the e-GIF likely to specify open standards for=20
  distributed>    
computing?>=20
  >     The e-GIF
specifies standards for Web =

  services; it focuses
on>    =20
  technology>    
which is broadly consistent =
with=20
  standards used within the Internet.
As>     =
a=20
  government wide service level architecture matures, further=20
  standards>     for
web services and common=20
  application services will be evaluated =
for>    =20
  inclusion in future version of the e-GIF.>=20
  >     Note in the
first Q&A "XForms=20
  specifications (as defined by W3C)"> =
>     I=20
  will leave it at that. BTW The move to XML means a move to open=20
  stds>     in gov
terms. The recent decision =
wrt=20
  OpenDocument over your side
o'the>     pond =
is but=20
  one. In health terms wait & watch.> >=20
  >     However just
out of interest could =
you answer=20
  the question I asked>     =
originally?>=20
  >     When will MS
be natively supporting =
XForms in=20
  IE or will it be a
choice>     of Moz =
or  IE +=20
  plugin such as the Novell one?> =
>    =20
  Adam>
>     
>=20
  >      >=20
  Rich>     
>=20
  >     =20
  >>      =
>     "Adam"=20
  <mmmmm_beer_mmmm_donuts{at}moesmailto:mmmmm_beer_mmmm_donuts{at}moes">mmmmm_beer_mmmm_donuts{at}moes
A>>    =20
  <mailto:mmmmm_beer_mmmm_donuts=">mailto:mmmmm_beer_mmmm_donuts{at}moes">mailto:mmmmm_beer_mmmm_donuts=
{at}moes>>     =20
  >     <mailto:mmmmm_beer_mmmm_donuts=">mailto:mmmmm_beer_mmmm_donuts{at}moes">mailto:mmmmm_beer_mmmm_donuts=
{at}moes>>=20
  wrote in
message>     =20
  >     news:433baaff$1{at}w3.nls.net...=
>     =20
  >     Mostly a question for
Rich S, but others =
can join=20
  in (like I>     can=20
  stop>      =
>     you=20
 
<G>).>     =20
  >>      =
>     We=20
  have a requirement that going forward most of our=20
  forms>     should be=20
  of>     
>     =
the=20
  XHTML+XFORM variety (google on UK gov e-gif &=20
  xform).>     =20
  >>      =
>     Moz=20
  & others seem to be working towards native support=20
  for>     XForms=20
  but>     
>     =
all I=20
  can find wrt IE are some plugins which will=20
  undoubtably>     do=20
  the>     
>     =

  job>     
>     =
but=20
  require downloadng
etc.etc.>     =20
  >>      =
>    =20
  Equally OpenOffice2 has a quite good XForms builder &=20
  editor>     & there=20
  is>     
>     =
a fairly=20
  neat thing from IBM for
eclipse.>     
=

  >>      =
>    =20
  However can find zilch from MS. Any new wrt IE7 or even=20
  your>     MS=20
  dev>     
>     =
tools=20
  &
XForms?>     =20
  >>     =20
  >>      =
>    =20
Adam

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