0n (25 Apr 05) Janis Kracht wrote to Cindy Haglund...

 JK> Hi Cindy,

>> I never had very good luck making bread by hand.  I think it was
>> because I probably used too much flour and had too stiff a dough.

 JK> > Flour is tricky. I've a Kitchen Aid(TM).

 JK> Those are the greatest mixers in the world, aren't they? :)  This
 JK> year, I had to replace the first one I bought long long ago, when one
 JK> of the gears died (that should give you an idea of how old it was,
 JK> those machines are built like tanks :) :) )

 YEAH! You've got one too! :) I got my first a couple Xmas's ago. It's
bright red. I love it. I call it Mr. Red. And like to say, "Mr, Red is
ready to knead some bread for me today." 

I used to love kneading bread but my hands have gotten a bit of arthritis
in them (yeah I hearr ya, what else is new? My mom said when I was 35
this is when the body starts betraying you. Pessimistic yes but she
was right. So you battle it the best you can).

Any way my hubby go tme the pasta maker/slicer /gridner attachements.
Did you get those?

The slicer works alright but don't do it with onions. The pasta maker
part well I gave up on until I can find someone who has tried it and
figured out how to get the water/flour ratio just so... so you can
seperate the strands. I think it's the eggs though that make the dough
sticky.

I thought regular pasta didn't have eggs in it. ALl the home made
pasta reciepes I've found have eggs in it. Maybe I'll get brave and
just go ahead and leave the eggs out and see what happens. hahaha.

My mom borrowed (smart woman) a pasta maker once to try it  out. She
made monicotti. It was wonderful! Home made pasta is so much lighter
than commercial pasta. But she thought it was way too much work so
didn't go and buy a maker herself.
                                   
 JK> > The bread hook does all the
 JK> > kneading for me though my sister says ten minutes is how long she
 JK> does > it for. They give a much shorter kneading time. I think it
 JK> depends on > the kind of flour. Heavier flours (whole wheat) need more
 JK> kneading.
 JK> > Less gluten in them I think is why.

 JK> :) just the opposite.. whole wheat flours have more gluten in them,
 JK> but you need to kneed them longer to develop the gluten.

 AH. Okay THAT makes sense! Because if it didn't why would the refined
flours have it unless it got put in. There's something else that make
it harder to 'get it elastic'. Yes knead till kingdome come haha . MY
sister says ten minutes at least. The other problem is to not use too
much flour and to keep the dough warm.. (make bread on a hot sunny
day! with the a/c off.)

 JK> > I've always had bad luck wit
h the
 JK> > wheat breads so make it half and half (unbleached white to whole
 JK> > wheat) and it comes out better though doesn't rise very well.

 JK> Yes, for flours that are labled "Bread Flour" need 10
minutes kneading
 JK> by hand, so that the gluten had time to develop. With a less powerful
 JK> mixer like a SunBeam (yes, I beat one of those into the  ground years
 JK> ago ) you'd go the whole 10 minutes, typically.  With a Kitchenaid
 JK> 5 or 6 qt. mixer, about 5 minutes is right for Bread Flour.. I've now
 JK> got that monster Kitchenaid "The professional" and that sucker does
 JK> several loaves of bread dough using Bread Flour in about 3 minutes
 JK> .

 So it's true? The KA pro (what I have ) CAN get the job done in
lickity split time afterall? Not in Texas I'm afraid. I've had others
tell me they have trouble in low lying areas too. That's why flat
landers eat flat breads! 

No problem rasing with recipes calling for eggs though. I'll post my
cinamon loaf if you like. It's a family favroite. My sister has me
make her some when I go up to visit. We discovered you can make rolls
out of it instad of a bread loaf. That was fun daring do. Worked out
great too.
                           
 JK> For any type of flour, and any type of mixer, you can tell when you've
 JK> kneeded it enough by taking lifting the ball of dough in your hands,
 JK> and running your finger over dough.. if you see airbubbles
 JK> interspersed in the dough where you run your finger across it, it's
 JK> done .

  Yep. Oh.. btw rolling out the dough before the second rising. When I
did this with the cin. loaf my sister said she culdn't see any air
bubbles. I told her they look like little blisters, and are under the
'skin' so to speak. Just pop 'em. Otherwise you get big air spaces in
your baked loaf.

 JK> > The trick to the flour is to add onlly as much as until the dough is
 JK> > only slightly sticky. Put pan of boiling water on bottom rack in
 JK> > warmed oven too, this provides moisture during rising.

 JK> That does help with the rising.. Using more yeast will make the dough
 JK> rise faster when you're in a rush, but if you use WAY too much, your
 JK> bread will taste very "yeasty".. I use my microwave to proof bread
 JK> since it has powersettings from 1% to 100%. I put a two cup containter

  I've never done that. Hmm. proofing the yeast in the microwave. I
just put it in a small warmed cup and cover it with a cotton cloth.

 JK> of water in it first, and bring that to a boil on 100% power.. then I
 JK> put the dough in, and microwave the dough for about 5 minutes on power
 JK> -1- (one) It's very immportant that it's only set to one, or you'll
 JK> cook the dough :) :) After 5 minutes, I turn the dough over and
 JK> microwave it for another 5 minutes on power-setting one.. voila, it's
 JK> done 

 You put the dough in there? This is new to me. This speeds up the
rising process? you mean to tell me we dont have to put it in the
regular oven warmed a bit for 1 1/2 hours and then another 45 mintues
anymore? REALLY? Where is this wonderful bit of news from. :)

 JK> > I tried using a bit more yeast and at tad of sugar in it too. I
 JK> found > out from an online tip site if you wait til the yeast is all
 JK> foamy ,
 JK> > it's spent! ah ha! So proof for only three minutes. But still the
 JK> > elevation here in Texas is such that yeast has harder time. That's
 JK> why > I guess flat breads are more popular in flat countries ! :)

 JK> Don't put sugar in unless you think the yeast is old or dead, and

 Goood idea. A site on bread tips said the same thing. If the yeast
foams up too fast it's spent before it even gets into the flour where
it's meant to do its spending.

 JK> really just to test it.. when you put sugar in, you are feeding the
 JK> yeast and yes, it will be spent before it gets added to the dough.  A
 JK> tiny pinch of sugar is really ok, but you have to be careful how much
 JK> you add.

  Yep. I did it because the recipe I had used said to.. I guess it
wasn't a good idea afterall. Well it was for a bread calling for very
little sugar. If the recipe calls for sugar you shouldn't eed any
added sugar anywhere but to the flour before putting in the proofed
yeast.

>> I got a small bread machine last year, and, contrary to advice, I
>> decided to use only whole grain flours in it.  I found that even

 JK> I can't eat whole wheat flour type breads (they kill my guts!) so I
 JK> don't use them.

 Gluten intolerance? I was online looking up about Gluten and found
nothing but gluten free diet info for Celiac disease. Isn't this
disease due to  years of low fiber eating habits? Most of us don't get
enough fiber. Refining and processing of flours most of us eat
takes it all out. And most folks avoid veggies like the plague. (Most
folks I know that is.
.........
 JK> Do you live in the mountains? :)  Yes, if you are in a high altitude

  No. I visited my brother in Colorado. In Crested Butte. That's where
the high bread surprise story came from. :) We live in avery flat area,
of northeast Texas at this time.

Where are you located? :)

Cindy


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