On Tue, 18 Feb 2014, Nicholas Boel wrote to mark lewis:

 ml> that would only be due to the ascii graphic logo thing and that it
 ml> gets broken all to hades on systems that wrap the (supposedly) plain
 ml> ascii text descriptions...

 NB> The "ascii graphic logo thing" that contains *only* normal ASCII
 NB> symbols?  Which some of those same symbols are used in the
 NB> fileid.txt spec as an  example?

yes... that logo that has spacing formatting which the spec defines as not
desirable... and that because of the wrapping that some systems do with the
descriptions due to the sysops' choices in how they want the descriptions
displayed ontheir systems...

 NB>> This is why this all started in the first  place, correct?

 ml> no sir... not that i'm aware of... there are quite a few that do the
 ml> same thing... agoranet is not and has not been singled out AFAIK...

 NB> This started because I offered up my services to hatch out network 
 NB> information packs (unaltered) to others (like me) that were
 NB> threatened with  not distrobuting their files(s) because they
 NB> contain STANDARD ASCII  characters in them, which the file_id.diz
 NB> spec clearly shows in use as an  example.

sorry but no... this all started in another echo and then came here when
robert posted his message which you apparently took umbrage to...

 NB> If one person that moderates one FDN is going to threaten others
 NB> with  non-distrobution because they can't figure out how to hatch
 NB> something  properly, I'll offer an easier solution with no threats.
 NB> One person's faults  is another person's gain. *shrug*

no one person moderating one FDN threatened anyone... the decision to
attempt enforcement again was made higher up than that my concensus of the
members of the network doing the distributing... it was not one FDN area
person...

[trim]

 ml> no one ever singled you or your software out, nick... let's not get
 ml> too defensive here, ok? ;)

 NB> Sorry, but you jumped on my case because I offered to hatch out

i did not jump your case, nick... as i stated before, all i've tried to do
was to explain robert's post and the whys behind it... nothing more...
anything else read into that is a huge misunderstanding and misreading of
my post(s) on this subject...

[trim]

 ml> FWIW: allfix uses template files where you can specify and define what
 ml> fields appear where and how long they are to be...

 NB> If Allfix had a Linux version, I'm sure I would have used it by
 NB> now. 

do you not run any DOS doors on your system? allfix should be able to run
just like they are... all it needs is access to the PKTs or MSG netmail
area as well as the files areas...

[trim]

 NB> My BBS seems to display all of these file_id.diz's just fine over
 NB> here as  well. I'm definitely not seeing the same issue you are.

then maybe you or your software have figured out how to handle CP437
characters without them being translated when other CPs are being used...

 NB> Still not seeing a problem with the DIZ or LDESC fields, or how
 NB> it's  displayed on my BBS or archives.thebbs.org either. You
 NB> targetted me by  replying to my offering to hatch out files on

i never targetted you, nick... i replied to your reply because you didn't
seem to understand the original request and why it was made in the first
place... nothing more...

[trim]

 ml> no one is asking you to change them...

 NB> So this entire thread was some kind of rant because you can't read
 NB> "fancy  logos" created with ASCII characters?

hell no... as i've stated several times, i am/was trying to explain the
problem to you but all you seem to want to do is look at your system and
use it to justify causing others' systems' files areas to look like crap
because someone wants to draw fancy stuff in their file descriptions...

[trim]

 ml>> do you see the problem now?

 NB>> Yep. It messes up when ANSI control codes are used.

 ml> there was no ansi codes in there at all!

 NB> Ah, you're right. No ANSI codes because it was saved as block
 NB> ASCII, which are  characters above 128, which is where the problem
 NB> lies.

right... and those using spacing to format ascii characters to form a type
of logo drawn with ascii characters...

 ml> [trim]

 NB>> Oh, and by the way.. every one of those ASCII pictures you posted
 NB>> above that  DID display exactly how they should have,

 ml> they were not displayed exactly as they should have been /because/
 ml> some characters were converted *before* i copied and pasted them in to
 ml> the message...

 NB> Then you didn't provide good enough examples. When they were pasted
 NB> here  (besides the two bottom ones that were obviously >128 and
 NB> converted to  complete garbage), they looked fine.

i gave you the links to a web site so you could look at them directly and
see how they appeared on the web site... of course pasting them in here is
going to result them not being mashed together because this is a monospace
medium...

[trim]

 ml>> this is one of the problem points being brought up to be
 ml>> solved...

 NB>> Solved how? By not releasing it at all?

 ml> no... solved by using the 7-bit a-zA-Z0-9 and symbol characters...

 NB> Wait.. So now there's nothing wrong with my file_id.diz for
 NB> Agoranet? What you  mention in the above sentence is all it has
 NB> ever contained. I wouldn't create  a file_id.diz with ASCII >128.

other than the spaced out formatting, the characters used are ok although
not specifically within the realm of what the spec was trying to convey...

 ml> i've said what needed to be said and i'm not going to
 ml> argue or debate or similar about it any more... it isn't worth all the
 ml> crap... the spec is easily read and understood... logos and the like
 ml> simply don't belong in the description of a file on a bbs -=BECAUSE=-
 ml> "you" (inclusive) cannot control how others display those
descriptions
 ml> and surely "you" (inclusive) want "your"
(inclusive) files'
 ml> descriptions to be legible in any format... think about that instead
 ml> of the artistry involved and trying to pretty things up...

 NB> Some people enjoy some artistry in their lives. Then again, some
 NB> don't. 

that's beside the point, nick... i, too, like looking at the logos and
drawings but not in file descriptions where they are mostly illegible and
end up mashed together on systems that don't have the capabilities of your
system or mine...

 NB> So logos and the like simply don't belong because Mark Lewis can't
 NB> read  them and says so. Mmkay. Point made, and ignored. 

i'm not the only one, nick... you certainly have a way of flipping things
around and seeing them in a way not intended... *I* didn't originate the
complaints this time... the complaints have been made numerous times over
the last three decades... each time, things get cleaned up and are better
for a while and then they slide again...


)\/(ark

One of the great tragedies of life is the murder of a beautiful theory by a
gang of brutal facts. --Benjamin Franklin

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