* * * This message was from Amy Guskin to rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.m * * *
         * * * and has been forwarded to you by Lord Time * * *         
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{at}REPLY:
>On Sat, 23 Sep 2006 10:08:36 -0400, Carl wrote
(in article ):
> 
> Amy, I was born in Chicago and I lived in an area that I was most definitely
> a minority and had a lot offensive things thrown at me. The culmination of
> that bias against me based on my race included a knife in my gut and being
> left to die in an alley when I was 7. <<

Carl, obviously that's a horrible story, and I'm really sorry that it 
happened to you, but it _is_ also anecdotal.  It's one story.  Historically, 
in this country, the demographic least discriminated against, least likely to 
be derided or harassed because of race/gender, are white, western 
European-descended males.  It isn't bigotry; it's fact.

>> You can have all your "well reasoned socio-cultural
conclusions," but 
> they're
> still stereotypes... and they still presume that it's white males that are 
> the ones
> that going to be offensive. <<

I didn't say "all western European descended white males are
bigoted"; I said 
that Mac and Charlie, based on my observations and their stance on that term 
are probably from within that group.  Still, I apologize if it offended you.

>> It's always easy to assume it's "some other group"
that's much worse than 
> "My"
> group... but there are equally offensive people of every group, every 
> gender,
> every degree of education. <<

Well, technically, they _are_ in my group, except for the male thing.  I'm a 
European-descended white person.  So clearly I wasn't saying that every 
European-descended white person has those biases -- just that I'm not too 
surprised to find that people who _do_ have those biases are from within that 
group, purely because of their likely lack of experience of being the target 
of any racial (or gender) prejudice.

>> You have to treat such people as individuals or you add to the tensions and 
> divisions
> that we already have. <<

I do!  You don't see me chiding you, or Wes, or Joe DeM for something you 
didn't say or do -- and hey, you're probably all European-descended white 
guys.  :-)

>>>>>>>> (Actually I am of
>>> the demographic and  thought the way you did on the
original)> <<
>> 
>> You're from a major metropolitan coastal region, right?  I think maybe 
>> it's a
>> middle-of-the-country thing; I'm taking note of who says they've heard the
>> term, and who was completely flummoxed by it -- Josh and I had never heard
>> it, and we've spent most of our lives in major metropolitan coastal 
>> regions
>> (right, Josh?).
> 
> Now you're dividing end coasters with middle of the country.  Why do people 
> always
> do that?  I've lived in large meto areas most of muy life.  I've lived in 
> Europe.
> I've travelled extensively and yet you presume to stereotype me and
> everyone in the midwest. <<

Whoa...  You'll notice, if you reread that, that I didn't say, "Oh, it's you 
bumpkins in the middle of the country, I'm sure!"  What I _said_ was that I 
in tracking the responses, I noted that some of the people who _hadn't_ heard 
that term before were people from a coastal major metro area, so I wondered 
if it was a geographic thing.  That's simply conjecture based on observation. 
 And you can't tell me that the idea that some terms are used in some places, 
and others in other places, is completely unknown to you.  All we have to do 
is look at the pop/soda/coke divide, or the hoagie/hero/sub divide, to note 
that phenomenon.

>> To be fair, a lot of people do the same thing to you too, but I find it 
> unfortunate. <<

Well, I don't think it's bad to note differences.  If anything, I think 
that's dangerous and overly pc.  I think we should note and embrace diversity 
rather than fear and ignore it.

>> I need to take a break from this discussion for a while.  Absum! <<

Understood.

Amy
                           
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