Hi Cindy,

Sorry to be pokey in replying to this one.. things get hectic over here now
and then 

>> > Flour is tricky. I've a Kitchen Aid(TM).
>> Those are the greatest mixers in the world, aren't they? :)  This
>> year, I had to replace the first one I bought long long ago, when one
>> of the gears died (that should give you an idea of how old it was,
>> those machines are built like tanks :) :) )

> YEAH! You've got one too! :) I got my first a couple Xmas's ago. It's
> bright red. I love it. I call it Mr. Red. And like to say, "Mr, Red is
> ready to knead some bread for me today." 

I sure do.. :) :)  Though I've never talked to mine (but I can understand it
), I do remember swearing at it early on 'til I understood how it worked


> I used to love kneading bread but my hands have gotten a bit of arthritis
> in them (yeah I hearr ya, what else is new? My mom said when I was 35
> this is when the body starts betraying you. Pessimistic yes but she
> was right. So you battle it the best you can).

Mine too.. it's in the family, but mine was a little "rushed" by
the standard treatment for MS when you first get it.. steroids..
prednisone/cortisone.. Nasty stuff with a big "N" :(

> Any way my hubby go tme the pasta maker/slicer /gridner attachements.
> Did you get those?

I have the pasta thingy, and the sausage stuffer... not the newer pasta
machine attachment for the Professional though.. that would duplicate my
hand-crank pasta machine, and I don't think it would be better if it was so
mechanized.. good pasta takes a touch and you wouldn't get that with the
mixer driving it.

> The slicer works alright but don't do it with onions. The pasta maker
> part well I gave up on until I can find someone who has tried it and
> figured out how to get the water/flour ratio just so... so you can
> seperate the strands. I think it's the eggs though that make the dough
> sticky.

I use the recipe that comes in the book.. lemme see if I remember
.. I'll check tomorow to see if I have it right, but this should
work ok:

4 cups flour
4 eggs
1 tsp. water..

Then mix for 15 seconds.. wrap it up in plastic wrap for 15 minutes, then
put walnut sized balls in the opening.. don't put more than one in at a
time..

> I thought regular pasta didn't have eggs in it. ALl the home made
> pasta reciepes I've found have eggs in it. Maybe I'll get brave and
> just go ahead and leave the eggs out and see what happens. hahaha.

You need eggs for pasta :)  You can leave out the yolks if you want for
noodles like those "NO YOKES" noodles you see in the store :) But
I always use whole eggs..

> My mom borrowed (smart woman) a pasta maker once to try it  out. She
> made monicotti. It was wonderful! Home made pasta is so much lighter
> than commercial pasta. But she thought it was way too much work so
> didn't go and buy a maker herself.

My crank machine is what I use all the time.. the extruded pasta is not as
good .. it's ok, if you're in a rush, but no where near as flexible for
recipes (like ravioli) as the crank machine :)

[bread]
>> > The bread hook does all the
>> > kneading for me though my sister says ten minutes is how long she
>> does > it for. They give a much shorter kneading time. I think it
>> depends on > the kind of flour. Heavier flours (whole wheat) need more
>> kneading.
>> > Less gluten in them I think is why.

Btw, the shorter time is because of the planetary action of the Kitchenaid
mixer.. that's why you use the machine  for a shorter time than by hand.

>> :) just the opposite.. whole wheat flours have more gluten in them,
>> but you need to kneed them longer to develop the gluten.

> AH. Okay THAT makes sense! Because if it didn't why would the refined
> flours have it unless it got put in. There's something else that make
> it harder to 'get it elastic'. Yes knead till kingdome come haha . MY
> sister says ten minutes at least. The other problem is to not use too
> much flour and to keep the dough warm.. (make bread on a hot sunny
> day! with the a/c off.)

Ok, the difference between white flour and whole wheat flour is that the
whole wheat flour kernal is not cracked.. that's why you it doesn't rise
"as much" as white flour, and why you have to knead it longer
than white bread flour.. you have to develop the gluten, as I said.. sorry
for not making that clear..It does rise to "double in volume" ..
but it's "double" is smaller somewhat than White flour's
"double".. geez I hope that makes sense :)

>> > I've always had bad luck wit
> h the
>> > wheat breads so make it half and half (unbleached white to whole
>> > wheat) and it comes out better though doesn't rise very well.

>> Yes, for flours that are labled "Bread Flour" need 10
minutes kneading
>> by hand, so that the gluten had time to develop. With a less powerful
>> mixer like a SunBeam (yes, I beat one of those into the  ground years
>> ago ) you'd go the whole 10 minutes, typically.  With a Kitchenaid
>> 5 or 6 qt. mixer, about 5 minutes is right for Bread Flour.. I've now
>> got that monster Kitchenaid "The professional" and that
sucker does
>> several loaves of bread dough using Bread Flour in about 3 minutes
>> .

> So it's true? The KA pro (what I have ) CAN get the job done in
> lickity split time afterall? Not in Texas I'm afraid. I've had others
> tell me they have trouble in low lying areas too. That's why flat
> landers eat flat breads! 

Yes, it can  :)  Now I'm not sure about the "flat lands" thing..
I'll have to look on a map to see where you are... The only thing I've ever
heard about is HIGH altitude, not low..

> No problem rasing with recipes calling for eggs though. I'll post my
> cinamon loaf if you like. It's a family favroite. My sister has me
> make her some when I go up to visit. We discovered you can make rolls
> out of it instad of a bread loaf. That was fun daring do. Worked out
> great too.

Yep, I would love to see it :) It's one of my favorite breads and we can
compare methods, etc. :)

>> For any type of flour, and any type of mixer, you can tell when you've
>> kneeded it enough by taking lifting the ball of dough in your hands,
>> and running your finger over dough.. if you see airbubbles
>> interspersed in the dough where you run your finger across it, it's
>> done .

> Yep. Oh.. btw rolling out the dough before the second rising. When I
> did this with the cin. loaf my sister said she culdn't see any air
> bubbles. I told her they look like little blisters, and are under the
> 'skin' so to speak. Just pop 'em. Otherwise you get big air spaces in
> your baked loaf.

Yes, you can see the little bubbles when you run your finger over the dough
- it's different than the bigger air bubbles you see when your roll the
dough out
:)

>> > The trick to the flour is to add onlly as much as until the dough is
>> > only slightly sticky. Put pan of boiling water on bottom rack in
>> > warmed oven too, this provides moisture during rising.

>> That does help with the rising.. Using more yeast will make the dough
>> rise faster when you're in a rush, but if you use WAY too much, your
>> bread will taste very "yeasty".. I use my microwave to proof bread
>> since it has powersettings from 1% to 100%. I put a two cup containter

> I've never done that. Hmm. proofing the yeast in the microwave. I
> just put it in a small warmed cup and cover it with a cotton cloth.

That's how I used to do it :) :)

>> of water in it first, and bring that to a boil on 100% power.. then I
>> put the dough in, and microwave the dough for about 5 minutes on power
>> -1- (one) It's very immportant that it's only set to one, or you'll
>> cook the dough :) :) After 5 minutes, I turn the dough over and
>> microwave it for another 5 minutes on power-setting one.. voila, it's
>> done 

> You put the dough in there? This is new to me. This speeds up the
> rising process? you mean to tell me we dont have to put it in the
> regular oven warmed a bit for 1 1/2 hours and then another 45 mintues
> anymore? REALLY? Where is this wonderful bit of news from. :)

I had a microwave way way back that had power levels of percents.. like 1%
to 100%.. so I knew that 1% was awful darn low :) I didn't want to put a
towel (even wet would have gotten too sticky) on it, so I put in a two cup
measure of water (all I had at the time) and let it boil first.. then I put
in the dought and changed the heat level to 1%.. just one.. :).. worked so
well I couldn't believe it.. :) :)

>> > I tried using a bit more yeast and at tad of sugar in it too. I
>> found > out from an online tip site if you wait til the yeast is all
>> foamy ,
>> > it's spent! ah ha! So proof for only three minutes. But still the
>> > elevation here in Texas is such that yeast has harder time. That's
>> why > I guess flat breads are more popular in flat countries ! :)

>> Don't put sugar in unless you think the yeast is old or dead, and

> Goood idea. A site on bread tips said the same thing. If the yeast
> foams up too fast it's spent before it even gets into the flour where
> it's meant to do its spending.

Yep.. it's ok to see it bubble and dissolved yeast and all that.. but if
you use too much, you'll pay a price for that :) Your bread won't rise as
much, but moreso, when you bake it, there won't be enough air to get a good
high loaf..


>> really just to test it.. when you put sugar in, you are feeding the
>> yeast and yes, it will be spent before it gets added to the dough.  A
>> tiny pinch of sugar is really ok, but you have to be careful how much
>> you add.

> Yep. I did it because the recipe I had used said to..  I guess it
> wasn't a good idea afterall.

If the recipe calls for it, I add it.. but only exactly as much as they
call for ;) Some recipes, like for Panetonne (an Italian bread.. it's great
for gifts baked in a coffee can ), or for English Muffins..You
essentially create starter for the flour that gets added lately...

>Well it was for a bread calling for very
> little sugar. If the recipe calls for sugar you shouldn't eed any
> added sugar anywhere but to the flour before putting in the proofed
> yeast.

>>> I got a small bread machine last year, and, contrary to advice, I
>>> decided to use only whole grain flours in it.  I found that even

>> I can't eat whole wheat flour type breads (they kill my guts!) so I
>> don't use them.

> Gluten intolerance? I was online looking up about Gluten and found
> nothing but gluten free diet info for Celiac disease.

No, thank goodness I don't have that one as well :) :) It's just I don't
digest some things too well.. same thing with some vegatables 
It's not as bad as it sounds.. I can eat them but damn I get what Italians
call agita .. (Yes, I'm Italian, married to a dutch guy
).
> Isn't this
> disease due to  years of low fiber eating habits? Most of us don't get
> enough fiber. Refining and processing of flours most of us eat
> takes it all out. And most folks avoid veggies like the plague. (Most
> folks I know that is.
> .........

Wish I could eat all the things I love  but not for me.. :)

>> Do you live in the mountains? :)  Yes, if you are in a high altitude

> No. I visited my brother in Colorado. In Crested Butte. That's where
> the high bread surprise story came from. :) We live in avery flat area,
> of northeast Texas at this time.

Ok, makes more sense now.. :)

> Where are you located? :)

I live in Windsor, NY.. Waaaay up there .....I grew up in
Warwick,NY in southern Orange County :)

Take care,
Janis

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