LP>> I was told by a social worker year before last that I couldn't even
 LP>> say the words "Attention Deficit" or "hyperactivity" to a parent to
 LP>> compare what I had observed about a student's behavior in class to the
 LP>> list of symptoms of that disorder.
 BM>  Quite right but by the same token neither can she for the same
 BM>  reasons.
SHE didn't seem to think so.  She claimed to be the one in the position
to make such suggestions to the parent.  Thank goodness, she's not at
our campus anymore.  She didn't get along with the principal.
 LP>> She further added that to do was to make a
 LP>> diagnosis which would create liability for the district to pay for the
 LP>> child's treatment.  I argued with her on the basis that a) I am not a
 LP>> doctor & thus am not offering a medical diagnosis
 BM>  True but attention deficit and hyperactivity _are_ medical diagnoses
 BM>  that can only be made by an MD.  I don't doubt that you've probably
 BM>  seen many ADD/ADHD kids and are very capable of identifying them it's
 BM>  just not any teacher's place to tell a parent that in _those_ words.
I don't agree with your logic.  I do not profess to be a medical doctor,
therefore any opinion I offer as to a child's possible condition can be
only that:  opinion.  What this woman was saying to me was that I cannot
say the words "hyperactive," "short attention span," or "you should take
the child to be assessed."  I disagree with you that it's not a
teacher's place to tell a parent that---it's nearly a duty to do so if
the teacher observes a problem.
Am I supposed to ignore a student who is having trouble & wreaking havoc
on the rest of the class?  I don't think so.
Incidentally, once these kids are taking medication, the doctors are
quite happy to send 'round questionnaires asking me to rate the child's
behavior & describe symptoms.  So, how have I suddenly become qualified?
 LP>>  & b) I am allowed to assess a student's health & suggest a trip to
 LP>>  the eye doctor or hearing tests
 BM>  I think you'd be on shaky ground here also - now a chat with the
 BM>  school nurse wouldn't be at all out of line.
I have done both---referred a student to the nurse for vision screening
as well as phoned the parent to urge that the child be tested.
FWIW, students who refuse to wear glasses & are assigned preferential
seating are really hard to deal with, too.  I had one last year who
wanted me to enlarge all my handouts for her on the xerox machine.  I
can understand it if it's a situation in which the child's vision cannot
be corrected, but as one who is so blind I cannot see lines on the road
without my contacts (I can't wear glasses--they're too heavy now,) I
can't sympathize much with a kid who has glasses & won't wear them, but
expects extra accommodation.
 BM>  Doesn't your school routinely do vision and hearing 'screenings'
 BM>  of students?
The nurse's office does these all year.  It takes her & her assistant
that long to service 1,450 kids.  Often, kids will be absent when they
are called out of class & it is halfway through the year before a kid
who has squinted through & failed several classes is tested.
 LP>> or a trip to the nurse for a headache or skinned knee.
 BM>  Not the same thing at all; the kid can tell you she's got a headache
 BM>  (you probably gave it to her (-8 ) and you can see a skinned knee
 BM>  that obviously needs the nurse's attention.
Oh, the _kid_ is a medical doctor & can make that diagnosis?
Honestly, Bob, I'm allowed to check off Cold, Flu, Sore Throat,
Conjunctivitis & all sorts of conditions that are "diagnoses."  You're
just belaboring the point.
 LP>> Why can I not be considered a reliable enough observer of a student's
 LP>> work habits to reach a conclusion with regards to the student's lack
 LP>> of ability to complete a task or to master urges of impulsive behavior.
 BM>  Most teachers are reliable enough observers to reach the conclusion
 BM>  you are talking about, however, it is only work habits, lack of
 BM>  ability to complete tasks and inability to exercise impulse control
 BM>  that you should be talking to the parent(s) about.  Those are
 BM>  concrete things that you see everyday; you are qualified and
 BM>  competent to address those _educational_ issues.  If or when the line
 BM>  between what you are trained to do and experienced in doing is
 BM>  crossed into another field (i.e. medical) then, as the SW said, you
 BM>  open the district and possibly yourself to civil action.  You can
Informing the parent the child needs to be tested is NOT by any stretch
a medical diagnosis, nor does it make us any more liable for doctor
bills than if the nurse sends home a note to get the parent to take the
kid to the eye doctor.  SHE'S not a optometrist or an ophthalmologist
yet she can form a professional opinion about the child's sight.
In fact, we are told to assess ANY child's condition whether or not s/he
complains about health & have even been directed by the nurse *not* to
send them for specific symptoms.
 BM>  continue to inform the parent(s) of your observations and hope that
 BM>  they will eventually get the message and at least have the kid
 BM>  evaluated.  Nothing prevents you from discussing this with the school
 BM>  nurse, school psych or a counselor.  AFAIAC you've then done all that
 BM>  you can or should do.
I disagree.  I shouldn't be able to discuss something with a school
employee that I can't discuss with the parents.  It's their kid, for
crying out loud.
The school psychologist doesn't do much because she falls into the same
category as the SW--worried to death that the district will have to pay
a bill.
If I have a kid show up with lice, I write pediculosis on the nurse's
slip.  That's a medical condition that I can observe.  I don't need a
license to practice medicine to tell me what the little buggers crawling
around are.
I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.
Leona Payne
... "Milhouse, we live in the age of cooties!"  - Bart Simpson
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.3P SW12194
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