Mulling over LEE LOFASO to STEVE ASHER 17 Dec 2004

G'day Lee!

SA>Let's say that Fatima has been "approved", & that the
"Mary" that
SA>appeared confirms or defends or calls the world to return to or uphold
SA>Catholic dogma, which in turn includes fictions such as the dogma of
SA>the "Assumption of Mary", or of Mary's "Immaculate
Conception". It is
SA>one thing for Catholics to believe these "dogmas",
"infallible" statements
SA>by a pope ... concerning a matter of faith or morals. It is another thing
SA>for them to insist that all Christians are required to believe these
SA>"infallible" dogmas.

 LL> Those matters of faith and morals are for Catholics, not
 LL> impositions on non-Catholics.

Once more, this highlights the difficulty associated with understanding 
the meaning [if any] and the applicability [if any] of Catholic dogmas.

The Catholic Encyclopedia certainly appears to state that a doctrine
on faith and morals is to be held by all Christians. What better way
to undermine the Church than by introducing errors and marketing them
as binding on all Christians. [Or perhaps, not binding, depending
upon the secret meaning of "binds the whole Church", "irrevocably
held by all Christians" etc etc :)]

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Theological Definition

The Vatican Council (Sess. iv, cap. iv) solemnly taught the doctrine
of papal infallibility in the following terms:

    "The Roman Pontiff, when he speaks ex cathedra, that is to say,
when in the exercise of his office of pastor and teacher of all
Christians he, in virtue of his supreme Apostolic authority, defines
that a doctrine on faith or morals is to be held by the whole Church,
by the assistance of God promised to him in the person of Blessed
Peter, has that infallibility with which it was the will of Our Divine
Redeemer that His Church should be furnished in defining a doctrine on
faith or morals."

From this teaching we obtain an authoritative notion of the meaning of
definition in its theological, as distinct from its philosophical, or
canonical, sense. It is an irrevocable decision, by which the supreme
teaching authority in the Church decides a question appertaining to
faith or morals, and which binds the whole Church. From this
explanation it will be seen that four conditions are required for a
theological definition. 

(snip)

Source: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04675b.htm

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B. The Pope

EXPLANATION OF PAPAL INFALLIBILITY

The Vatican Council has defined as "a divinely revealed dogma"
that "the Roman Pontiff, when he speaks ex cathedra -- that is, when
in the exercise of his office as pastor and teacher of all Christians he
defines, by virtue of his supreme Apostolic authority, a doctrine of faith
or morals to be held by the whole Church -- is, by reason of the Divine
assistance promised to him in blessed Peter, possessed of that
infallibility with which the Divine Redeemer wished His Church to be
endowed in defining doctrines of faith and morals; and consequently that
such definitions of the Roman Pontiff are irreformable of their own nature
(ex sese) and not by reason of the Church's consent" (Densinger no.
1839 -- old no. 1680). For the correct understanding of this definition it
is to be noted that: 

(snip / snip)

Source: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07790a.htm#IIIB
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>LL>Many others were condemned.

SA>These days, people flog them on eBay. :) $30,000 for a mouldy cheese
SA>sanger that looks a bit like "Virgin Mary" is a nice little earner
SA>for someone.

 LL> Catholics even joke about themselves.  Certainly Baptists, and
 LL> Methodists, and Presybterians, etc., do as well.  Not to mention
 LL> Jews, and Muslims, and Hindus, and Buddhists, ...

Well, I always enjoyed the Dave Allen show, about 25 years ago. He was
an Irish Catholic with a missing finger or two, who was partial to
whisky, & drank a bit during his show. If you enjoy British comedy
you would probably have enjoyed his sketches.


Cheers, Steve..

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