-=> On 07 Oct 96  06:40 you wrote to me <=-
 JA>         Completed my new listening area yesterday and was really
 JA> blown away by the difference! While I don't get anything too much
        I assume that was easier than *moving* for a better room? :)
 JA> beyond 180 degrees from the Sonic Holography, I am thrilled with
 JA> that. The changes have opened up the sound stage dramatically,
        Well, I don't think you're likely to get much more than that
normally from Sonic Holography.  You've got to figure a normal stereo
microphone setup is *incapable* of truly distinguishing sounds that
are in back of the microphone as opposed to in front of.  So, any
effects you may hear that originate greater than 180 degrees either
aren't supposed to be there, are the result of a binarual effect
(intended or accidental), or aren't supposed to be there and are due
to room effects.  I have a disc or two that has sound effects
consistantly directly to the side of me and a few feet behind me that
are not due to room effects (the room is not completely symmetrical
and switching the L/R channels still produces the same effect on the
open side of the room).  This occurs both on Mazzy Star's album _So
that tonight I might see_ on track 1 (/Fade Into You/) and on the
Robotech Soundtrack (American soundtrack to the Japanese Macross
series plus two others combined to form "Robotech."  Not even in the
same ballpark as the original Macross soundtracks, but....) on a track
entitled "Look up the sky is falling."  Both produce percussion
effects that are clearly behind me and to the side.
        Also, Pink Floyd's _The Final Cut_ has binural sound effects
(actually Holophonics, to be precise) that work "ok" with Sonic
Holography.  Some effects occur in front of the speakers and I can
feel the "presense" of a car zip by even though all the sound doesn't
completely correlate unless wearing headphones (complete cancellation
would probably improve the effect further...I have a sampler disc of
Zucharelli's [sp] Holophonics that is more impressive on pure sound
effect channels with headphones on, but doesn't work as well with them
off).  In the latter disc's case, with headphones on, I can't tell
*spatially* the difference between several of the tracks and real
life, although the effect isn't NEARLY as convincing on the music
tracks as the sound effect ones.  I highly reccomend that disc as a
"wow" disc for headphones at only around $15 or so...I spotted it on
the Internet.  You might want to try it with your Sonic Holography
setup as well.
        There are several other discs that have sounds that not only
wrap around the room near the speakers (this is common with most discs
that have any amount of out of phase material on them), but also
project out directly into the room in front of me (this typically
doesn't happen too often, at least with my setup).  An example of this
type of effect is on the _Mission:  Impossible!_ soundtrack on the
track entitled "You, Me, and World War III."  BTW, that track and the
new Mission: Impossible! theme from 1/2 of U2 are simply AWESOME and
are very high quality recordings.  Many of the other tracks on there
range from good to excellent sound quality wise (notably the
instrumentals), but I find I don't care as much for the rest of the
soundtrack, musically.  I still find the disc worth the $12 I paid at
a local music store just for those two tracks.  Also, that's the disc
I mentioned in e-mail that has the 8th note triplets on a bass drum
that are hard for a sub to duplicate cleanly.
 JA> cleared the lower mid range where many of the instruments had
 JA> seemed slightly veiled, and brought a razor sharp report to the
 JA> bass. It is as if I bought a brand new, mega bucks system. I have
        Many say that the two largest factors in stereo reproduction
that are highly variable and that you can change are the speakers and
the listening room.  
 JA> never heard anything sound better.
        Well, I can say the same about my system, but I don't doubt
there are better systems out there (although I'm sure I'd get quite an
improvement with some room treatments as well).  Too bad you live so
far away, I'd like to hear your system (Mark's too for that
matter...although he is closer than you). :)
 JA> (And that is still with all Carver gear!)
        You make it sound as if Carver were some horrid brand.  Some
of their stuff is/was very high-end quality and other stuff is so-so.
Ever see the Silver 9-T monoblocks?  Or the new Lightstar.  I'd pit
their now discontinued Platinum Edition Amazing Planars against
*anything* out there, regardless of price.  Those were *the* most
underrated speakers in existance.  I note that Genesis capitalized
this and sells that particular ribbon driver in their $80,000 top of
the line Genesis I system and the AL-III's 48-inch ribbon in their
$20,000 Genesis II.5 system.  I'm proud to mention the name "Carver."
He may be unorthodox at times, but he knows what he's doing, unlike
many of the engineers of so-called "high-end" equipment.  
        BTW, you're not the only one having problems with the Internet
newsgroups.  My new provider is missing 2/3 of the messages.  I can
get "most" of them through my Akron Unix shell account, but it's
missing some messages too.  I've sent proof to the tech department.
I'm still waiting to see what happens.  I've got a WEB page (including
reccomended CD titles) set up.  I'm just waiting until this problem is
resolved before I spread the address because if they don't fix the
problem, I'm switching AGAIN. 
 JA> the rears are just Elcheapo Bose Model 100s.          Both music
 JA> and soundtracks have improved beyond what I would have dreamed of
 JA> and for the first time I am completely satisfied with the entire 
 JA> system. One thing I did notice and cannot explain. When I went
        For now....
 JA> off the Pro-Logic. I had done this before and it didn't sound too
 JA> bad.....just different. This time it sounded TERRIBLE! I couldn't
        That's strange.  Pro-Logic is basically just hard steering for
completely out-of-phase material to the rear speakers and
center-steering for in-phase material.  Did you Sonic Holography on at
the time as well?  There might be some conflict of resources with both
on at the same time, but I doubt it would greatly affect it given how
it works, although it certainly could *destroy* your soundstage since
the out of phase stuff will no longer be there for your front channels
to utilize with sonic holography?  Perhaps it sounds terrible because
the soundstage changes greatly?  Or are there other aspects to the
sound (tone, timbre, dynamics) that change as well?
 JA> it was great. I didn't think Pro Logic was suppose to sound that
 JA> bad, just different.
        Its effects might be "strange," on some material and better or
worse on other material, but I don't think it should really sound
"terrible," except perhaps by ruining the soundstage of if your center
speaker isn't up to par with the mains or aligned properly.
 JA>         I was able to get my mains 20 inches from the wall behind
 JA> them and three feet from either side wall. At a 12 ft distance to
        I've got over 3 feet behind my speakers and 4 feet from the
side walls, but I still want to apply some dampening material behind
and to the sides.  Of course, I've got true di-poles, so the distance
behind it might be a lot more critical.  You can always shut down the
rear woofer (Is there a tweeter back there too?)  I'm stuck with mine
since they're the exact same element....  I guess I could dampen them
with felt, but that would ruin some of the spaciousness and cut the
sensitivity by almost 3dB.
 JA> the listening position and 11 feet between speakers I could
 JA> detect no difference between the speakers being toed in or not
 JA> regardless of the source material.         I have run through a
        I've noticed a rather large difference with toed in.  I used
to have them just barely toed in, but found I got a new layer of
detail by aligning them so the apex of the triangle is just in front
of me.  (I read some info by Bob Carver on them on an Internet archive
that suggested this for the Amazings).
 JA> out of Sonic Halography on each. I have yet to find a type of 
 JA> music that does not sound better with it engaged! I even ran it
        Yes, I don't know how people live without it (I guess
ignorance is bliss :)  Truly, it largely corrects for a *real* problem
in stereo reproduction (interaural crosstalk) when set up right or at
least improves it.  It's not processing the sound in any other way.
 JA> and they too sounded better. It not only adds to the depth of the
 JA> sound stage, but  seems to wrap the sound out to the sides and
 JA> beyond the speakers more naturally. It also takes out the extreme
        YES! :)
 JA> harshness of a couple older CDs that I have and makes them easier
 JA> to listen to. I had played with the idea of replacing the Carver
        It even improved my old "junk" speakers.  They couldn't image
beyond the sides without it. 
 JA> pre amp with a unit that has Pro logoc and AC3, but do not want
 JA> to be without the Sonic Halography now.
        Neither do I.  I plan to either wait until I can afford a
Lexicon DC-1 with AC-3 and PANORAMA (does the same thing as Sonic
Holography and is more configurable as to WHERE the effect
occurs...i.e. you can sit off-center) or I'll keep the SH pre-amp and
connect it to a tape loop (I think the additional electronics would
still be better sounding than without it at all since the difference
is so large with it on)  
 * AmyBW v2.14 *
... If this were an actual tagline, it would be funny.
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