Hello Alexander,
[..]
ak>>> I know history. Poland shamelessly used German's gains of Russia's
ak>>> territory, after Germany was defeated in WW1.
RB>> As "shamelessly" as Russia took half of Poland after WWII?
ak> Not after the WW2 -- Russia(the USSR) returned its territories in 1939
ak> till Brest.
Some folks were both Polish and Russian. Not at the same time, but
always in the same place.
RB>> Let's keep things a bit more neutral. Except in the middle ages,
RB>> Poland was never an aggressor. Then the Poles wanted to _vote_ for
RB>> a king and the whole country (Poland-Lithuania) fell apart. Things
RB>> haven't been the same since.
ak> Poland had made a cat's paw out of Keiser Germany. Poland had become
ak> twice bigger after WW1, and it didn't become an aggressor. Very funny
ak> indeed. Almost a Solomon's wisdom. ;-)
Poland wanted to extend its border to the Urals, but a Georgian
farmer got in the way denying them entry.
ak>>>>> The USSR and the Soviet ideology was the only chance to stop the
ak>>>>> Nazi Germany. Western impotent nations were worthless in WW2.
ak>>>>> They entered the war when Germany was actually defeated by the
ak>>>>> USSR.
RB>>>> That old saw again. You and Ward should get together sometims and
RB>>>> slap each other on the back. Belgium and the USSR of 1940
RB>>>> coud "surely" have defeated Hitler .
ak>>> Don't know what you mean.
RB>> Ward is of the opinion that the American activity in WWII Europe
RB>> was unnecessary, as the Germans had already been defeated after
RB>> Stalingrad. And the (occupied) Europeans could have finished the
RB>> job without the help of the USA. Naturally I disagree.
ak> If the US and Britain would not opened the second front in 1944 the
ak> USSR's troops had reached Paris once more by themselves.
Had the US remained out of the war, Italy would have been in a much
stronger position. Mussolini was forced to side with Hitler, else
risk German invasion of Italy. A far different outcome of the entire
war may have been the result.
ak>>> Well, consider that situation, as it was: Hitler said to Stalin
ak>>> (via Ribbentrop), "I want to capture Poland for its bad behavior
ak>>> and return back old German territories. Would you like to take
ak>>> back your Russian old territories or I will capture them too?"
RB>> Rarely have I ever heard such a distortion of the truth. Where do
RB>> you get this kind of crud?
ak> Well, explain to me the principal, according to which Hitler and Stalin
ak> had divided Poland. Who did offer what, in your opinion? Who will be
ak> happy if Hitler would have captured all Poland? ;-)
Hitler did capture all of Poland. And more.
ak>
RB>> Jeez! Do they spread this kind of propaganda in the Russian media
RB>> nowadays? There's so much fact to contradict this kind of fiction,
RB>> if you consider more than the (Putin-controlled) public media. Look
RB>> at what was published during the Yeltsin-era to see more fact and
RB>> less fiction.
ak> You could present these facts, at least a few, instead of this
ak> unsubstantiated tirade.
Facts? What are facts? Histories are written by the victors.
Does that make the facts any more accurate than what the other
side had to report?
Unsubstantiated and unsupported statements should be met with
open skepticism. But in this era of fake news, that is rarely
done. If you do not believe me, just ask President Trump. He
is an expert on this matter. ;)
ak>>>>> There was a good subterfuge -- the Russian people referendum and
ak>>>>> the way Crimea appeared in Ukraine. The Crimeans started all
ak>>>>> this mess themselves after the coup in Kiev. Putin had no
ak>>>>> choice.
RB>> ;-)) Russian TV. "We are always the victims, never the aggressors."
RB>> Things haven't changed much since Alexander I.
ak> If you want to know how an aggressor and occupant looks -- go to
ak> Palestine, but surely not to Crimea. National policy in every country
ak> should be carried out with a greatest care. If it has not happened and,
ak> for instance, Catalonia wants to separate from Spain -- Spain can do
ak> nothing to prevent it. The same was in Crimea. The new Ukraine authority
ak> has been carrying out an awful national policy towards Russian speaking
ak> people. Results are no wondering.
Chechnya.
Circassia.
Karachay-Balkaria.
Luhask Oblask.
Donetsk Oblask.
Crimea.
Sevastopol.
England.
Scotland.
Shetland.
Wales.
Northern Ireland.
London.
Gibraltar.
Texas.
Alaska.
Hawaii.
Tibet.
RB>>>> Then Trump now has no choice but to invade Crimea, drive the
RB>>>> Russians out and restore the national borders of Ukraine. Yeah,
RB>>>> sure.
ak>>> Let him help the Arabs. Then the main source of terror in the
ak>>> world will be eliminated, and the Americans again would be able to
ak>>> travel around the world without fear to be stubbed in all places
ak>>> available. ;-)
RB>> Care to define "the Arabs"? There are a lot of muslims in this
RB>> world, and no two agree. I privately think that the only person a
RB>> muslim hates more than infidels is another muslim (sunni vs
RB>> shiite), but that may just be a result of the reporting.
ak> All civil wars in Muslim countries start after the US invasions,
ak> inciting or other "help". This happened in Iraq, Libya, Syria that were
ak> prosperous countries before "help".
Afghanistan is not a *Muslim* country?
Not even Alexander the Great could conguer that land.
The Greeks could no more handle Afghans than anybody else.
And that was before the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) converted
them.
The British tried. Three times. Rudyard Kipling wrote
stories about his experiences there. The Russians tried.
And had the good sense not to go back. The Americans are
still trying, but will leave once they tire of the game.
It makes no difference if a land is *Muslim* or *non-Muslim*.
It makes no difference if a land is even a country. A people
who are united can never be subjugated by any outside force.
Whether it is Afghanistan, Palestine, Ireland, Korea, or any
other land, the original inhabitants own the land. Not anybody
else.
Last night, US President Donald Trump addressed the nation,
telling everybody he is going to send more troops to Afghanistan.
Here is my message to him, in response -
It's their country.
They are going to run it.
We have to come home.
Afghanistan is America's longest war. 17 years and counting.
Only a fool would want to waste more human lives in this endeavor.
RB>> By thre way, you might ask yourself why Putin is so set on
RB>> defending the Syrian regime. It's not that he likes Assad so much,
RB>> but a warm water base is worth a lot to Russia, as it was during
RB>> the reign of Peter the Great.
ak> So does America. There no secret it supported most ugly regimes where it
ak> had bases or interests. As for Assad, the Syria before war was the most
ak> democratic country across the whole medieval Middle East, where women
ak> are still humans of second kind and no democracy at all. But these fat
ak> cats are important for the US interests. The less critics the better.
Find a book written by Howard Zinn. And start reading.
If you prefer conspiracy theories, read Noam Chomsky.
RB>> The ideal situation (for Russia)
RB>> would be to annex Istanbul and thus have complete control over the
RB>> Black Sea. But that was too much for Peter and also for Catherine
RB>> the Great after him. The Ottoman Empire was still too strong. And
RB>> now Putin would have all of NATO to contend with if he tried to
RB>> annex Istanbul.
ak> Black Sea has no big strategic value at present moment. The Russian
ak> Black sea fleet is the inheritance of the USSR. Actually Russia is in
ak> awkward position. There is no necessity to built this fleet up, but it a
ak> pity to give it up for scrap metal. ;) Putin tries to invent some tasks
ak> for it.
Well, he did help Sochi win the bid for the Winter Olympics.
And then there are the upcoming World Cup matches ...
--Lee
--
We're Great In Bed
---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com
--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
|