Hi Tom, as you were just saying about Guns and Kids....
TR>  TR> Guns and children mix into a very lethal situation. Teenage boys are
TR>  TR> now more likely to die of gunshot wounds than from all natural
TR>  TR> causes combined.
TR> 
TR>  RT> Would like to see your source for this.  What I have shows that
TR> 
TR>  RT> even if you are including suicide which runs at a rate of 10.8  
Adding
TR>  RT> the two, homicide and suicide equals 48.3 which is below the 
accidents
TR>  RT> and adverse effects at 55.5.
TR> 
TR> There is probably the problem with the numbers. Accidental deaths
TR> with gunshot wounds would also be included. That would easily
TR> justify the numbers, regardless of the statistical year. My source
TR> listed gunshot wounds and made no distinction or breakdown of type.
Even accidental deaths by firearms are at an modern time low.  There
were only 1400 and change in 1992 out of 37,776 deaths by firearm. 
Homicide and suicide are, by far, the leading causes of firearm deaths.
 
TR> My source was noted as (Federal Bureau of Investigation Uniform
TR> Crime Reporting Program). There is also a person's name and year, I
TR> suppose the name of the statistician (McEnery, 1996). 
Thanks, I must have just missed it.
TR> I don't know
TR> the year of your information, but that would also make a big
TR> difference. The statement was an extraction from a U.S. Department
TR> of Justice, Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention
TR> Publication (Volume III, November 2, 1997).
My data was from 1992 and 1994.
TR>  TR> Homicides by kids with guns has tripled since 1983, so, where do we
TR>  TR> go from here?
TR> 
TR>  RT> Another by-product of our illustrious War on Drugs.  BTW, the stats
TR>  RT> that I have show that the deaths and the death rate for injury by
TR>  RT> firearms show that the deaths in 1980 were 33,780 for a rate of 14.8
TR>  RT> and in 1992 were 37,776 for a rate of 14.9. (I don't have that
TR>  RT> breakout by age.)  Not much change.  This means that if your stats 
are
TR>  RT> accurate then the death rate for all people other than kids must 
ave
TR>  RT> improved.
TR> 
TR> This would be a true statement, the death rate for people other
TR> than kids did improve. My source was the same as listed above. I
TR> might be able to guess, but I'm very curious about your statement,
TR> "Another by-product of our illustrious War on Drugs." I would rather
TR> not make a lot of assumptions about this statement, could you
TR> explain?
Turf wars causing the increase that you are takling about.  It takes
place mostly in black males from 15-19 and 20-24.  I don't look at them
as kids.......well, if you stretch it, perhaps, but I would not
consider them to be children.
TR>  RT> Although this is a start for a good plan, why is there no mention of
TR>  RT> education about firearms, firearms responsibility or firearms safety
TR>  RT> and why am I not surprized?  It sounds to me like a political 
exercise
TR> 
TR> The study I read indicates a major objective of removing guns from
TR> the hands of kids, not teaching them how to use them or firearms
TR> safety. I think that I know your premise of thought on this subject,
TR> but look at this from another perspective. 
Fair enough.
TR> This is not a laughing
TR> matter, but bear with me for a moment. The police in my city have
TR> joked about this subject on a regular basis. Why not take all of the
TR> gangbangers to the range and teach them how to kill each other more
TR> efficiently. There are entirely too many wasted rounds and too many
TR> innocents involved in their shooting situations (i.e. drive-bys,
TR> etc.). If we are able to qualify them with their weapons and bring
TR> their accuracy up over 80%, there would be many less gangbangers for
TR> us to deal with and many less innocents killed and injured. One
TR> negative aspect of this additional proficiency with weapons would be
TR> more police officers killed in the shootouts the gangbangers have
TR> with police. Some of the above could be classified as dark, police
TR> humor. It should be obvious that we really don't want dead bodies
TR> littering the streets every morning.
That is also the way that I would view it.  When people are faced with
frustration in trying to do their jobs, black humor steps in to,
perhaps, lighten it up a tad.
 
TR> This study did not address the kids you would address with
TR> firearms safety and responsibility. Your audience would be good
TR> kids, not gangbangers and dope dealers. If you were the teacher, I
TR> doubt very seriously that you would wish to teach proficiency to
TR> gangbangers and dope dealers. 
Exactly.  I am at enough risk without them being better shots.  :^)
TR> If I am correct about you, you would
TR> be diligent and dedicated to teaching firearms safety,
TR> responsibility, and proficiency for all of the RIGHT and LAWFUL
TR> reasons. Please correct me if I am wrong. On this premise, I would
TR> agree with you and support your actions. 
I absolutely don't think that gangbangers, etc.. should have *any*
access to a firearm, but I don't know how to accomplish that without
violating a piece of paper known as the Constitution.  It could maybe
be done with street sweeps on *known* felons, but it would be very
touchy.
BTW, you were correct in your assumption.
RD 
sandman@azstarnet.com - A newspaper ISP - Arizona Daily Star
sandman@brassroots.org - A no compromise gun rights organization.
http://www.azstarnet.com/~sandman
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