-=> Quoting Dale Krimmer to Doug Carter <=-
 DT> No, there's no "pull" per se.  The efficiency comes from being
 DT> able to spin quickly without losing the pedals.
 > Actually there is quite a bit of 'pull' power available...
Hi Dale...  Firstly, note the 'pull' with single quotes... as in 'so-called'.
 >The biggest efficiency comes from being able to balance out your exertions
 >over more muscles, and over a wider portion of the pedaling cycle...

 >move the feet thru the top/bottom portions and you are now using the whole
 >cycle with less effort and more efficiently... that is how you can keep it
 >up hour after hour... so it is desireable...
Secondly, we are talking efficiency, not maximum output...
 DK> seems all the racers felt they were able to "pull" the rear pedal
 DK> upwards for more speed.  Bicycling published the results of a
RACERS... certainly not me, that... I do have to be careful with energy
management...
 DK> scientific study which had a type of load cell thing attached to each
 DK> pedal and a computer charting the forces on it.  They were surprised to
 DK> find even the best racers didn't "pull" the rear pedal up, no
 DK> matter how hard they tried.  This was contrary to conventional
 DK> thinking, so they ran several more tests to confirm.  The conclusion
The original thinking I'm sure was what led to pedalling circular... that
is evenly around the whole pedal cycle... I'm quite positive that at a
certain level of performance, someone like a racer passes real 'lift' or
'pullup' forces... thus comparatively gets little extra benefit except
pure spin... I was mostly thinking about us slower paced riders... who like
long, long rides... And I do think that most of those benefit... I don't know
about you, but even with conventional clips/straps and ordinary shoes, I
can ride up most of the medium hills around here without ever pushing down
on the pedals IF I CHOOSE TO... purely on apparently non existent 'lift'.
In fact I do so while helping riders learn to pedal the circle...
Not to mention time spent on the top and bottom of the circle...
However.. as I said, SPEED is not something I push for... I like to get
there fresh, at a reasonable pace...
 DK> was that, when you think you are pulling the rear pedal up, you are
 DK> actually only unweighting it so the front can push down faster.  I
Again, I don't disagree... but it seems to me that means exerting a fair
bit of upward force to achieve it... it being reducing the amount of energy
required by the opposite foot pushing down... which was what I was saying.
 DK> Anyway, it DOES have the same effect, using different muscles
 DK> to lift the rear foot, allowing the front one to move faster, it's just
 DK> that the rear foot really doesn't pull as most people think it does.
 Again I agree.. the object is actually REDUCING the amount of effort
required by the downward stroke to achieve the same pace... also to
distribute that effort, not only over muscles, but time as well...
Try the uplift only bit on a local grade... not too steep of course...
see how much YOU can manage at lower pace...  Maybe it has to do with the
fact that I can only get to about 100 cadence before bouncing off the bike...
wheras on of my buddies here gets out to 140... but he sure can't keep it
up for long...  We are all different, eh!  Wish I had two butts... to 
lternat
thats the muscle that needs the rest after 8 or 10 hours of riding.
 
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