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echo: guns
to: TURIYAN GOLD
from: JOHN SANDOW
date: 1996-07-06 11:42:00
subject: .45 predudice

TG>I was lurking in Firearems tech and came across that post from that
TG>guy that said he "proves" that .45 is more powerful than 9mm by
TG>putting a 9mm casing in a .45 case.
Then fire a 9mm round with a 9mm barrel in a .45acp chamber, and see how 
powerful 30,000 psi is compared to 20,000 and what it does to the 
chamber.
TG>Anohter one of my favorites is the "It doesnt have to expand."
Well, it doesn't.  It doesn't have to even fire.  Just utter the majick 
incantation "It's a .45acp." or "1911" and your enemies with disappear as 
if hit by a star trek phaser.  :-)
TG>the Topper Knock-out scale, desinged for big game hunting, he claims
TG>that .45 FMJ is 88% more effective than any 9mm load.
For big game hunting, I would never use either, but in a big animal,
where the bullet can dump it's load of energy instead of just popping
through, it's going to be a closer call.  Still, I'd not rule out the 9mm
+p from Cor-Bon, 1350fps with a 115gr JHP.
I'd like to see this guy standing there though, fireing magazine after 
magazine of .45fmj into a charging nyati.  I've never seen a film of one 
throwing and trampling a person...
TG>What scares me is that people actually believe this garbage.
Have him prove it by doing the above then.
TG>Sure, the Straussburg tests are controvercial, the gelatin tests, and
TG>linear regression anayisis, are controvercial.  No problem. But there
TG>is a line when delusion comes into play.
I believe in my water tests, and some info from the Nosler bullet 
company, who test their bullets in the field.  For heavier animals I'm 
working up some 190gr Sierra FPJ loads, minimal expansion, about 1140 
fps.  For defense though I'll stand by 1300fps+ handloads with Hornady 
155gr XTP-JHP for the 'perfect' load, or for summer weather, the Nosler 
135gr loaded to 1450fps with delayed expansion modification.  Blowing a 
6" tear into a 5gallon cube of water speaks volumes in my book.  :-)
TG> JS> A hot loaded .40S&W can work wonders, as can a hot loaded .45acp.  
wo
TG> JS> choices, same general performance.  The USP however was made to 
asily
TG> JS> take .45acp +p, which will out perform .40S&W in terms of ballistics.
TG>I'd like to see some hot 175 grain silvertips in .40 S&W.  Are you
TG>aware that Winchester came out with silvertips for reloading?
Yep, but, I'm switching from Silvertips to 135gr Cor-bon for now.  I 
might use 180gr hydrashoks in the winter, but after my expansion tests 
with obstacles, the Silvertips, SXT's, and Nosler JHPs just do not expand 
(except for the 135gr, probably because of the velocity) after hitting 
obstacles.  I'm pretty sure the problem is the inner geometry of the 
hollow cavity.  A cylinder cavity tends to expand much less reliably.  I 
took a 180gr Nosler JHP and turned the cavity to a tapered inverted cone 
cavity geometry, also opened another 180gr JHP to a larger cylinder 
cavity, and fired them.  The tapered cavity opened, which neither 
cylinder opened much at all.  Next I am going to turn an XTP bullet to 
have a cylinder cavity and see how it performs compared to a standard 
conical cavity XTP.
TG>It would make an interesting test to do a little mix and matching.
TG>155 grain silvertip in 10mm and 175 grain silvertip in .40 S&W.  90
TG>grain silvertip in .357, and the heavyer silvertips for .38 Special.
Did I tell you I took a Black Talon bullet, yanked it from it's pathetic 
little 900fps case and reloaded it to about 1125fps?  :-)  It kind of 
tore apart.  I'd bank on it being more effective though.  Speer's GDHP 
did very well, and the factory 155gr load holds the most velocity from a 
3«" barrel of any rounds I tested.
TG>What do you think of this new .400 Cor-bon load?
I'd not want to get in it's way.  It's a great option, unnecessary IMHO, 
but easily equaling a .40S&W's performance, getting close to a 10mm.  
Load it with a 155gr XTP and you'll have a bloody great defense round.  
There have been some decent advances in the .45acp in bullet design, but 
I still like the 230gr Hydrashok.
!
þ SLMR 2.0 þ I don't like political jokes, elected or appointed.  
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