-=> Quoting Dewey Thiessen to Vern Faulkner <=-
 VF> I'm wondering about the upstroke side of things, since the knee
 VF> joint isn't really designed for much upward pulling... what
 VF> change in muscle use is there? Is it vast?
 DT> No, there's no "pull" per se.  The efficiency comes from being able to
 DT> spin quickly without losing the pedals.
 Actually there is quite a bit of 'pull' power available...
I can't comment on how effective it is to off road enthusiasts, but I can
talk about on road use...
The biggest efficiency comes from being able to balance out your exertions
over more muscles, and over a wider portion of the pedaling cycle...
Without any attachment to the pedals, power can only be applied to the pedals
over a limited arc for each foot...I'm not quoting exact figures here, but
if you look at your pedals you will see that the rear side of the range
is useless for pedalling at all, same for most of the area top and bottom
 of the front side... only when you get 20 to 30 degrees forward of the top
can you make much of downward push (although you might get a bit of forward
depending on how you sit the bike) and it will fall off in the same area
of the lower front... thus you may get 100 degrees of push total, times two
for two feet...  and all your power must be applied during that time to move
you, and by the same muscles...
Attaching the feet, you can match lift and push front and rear, which means
two different muscle groups can share the load, each working less at the same
time... then resting while the cycle reverses...  now add another group to
move the feet thru the top/bottom portions and you are now using the whole
cycle with less effort and more efficiently... that is how you can keep it
up hour after hour... so it is desireable...
I've noticed that at least around here, the mountain bike types have taken
to riding on the street with a 'downhill' type seating height... which makes
them all 'scrunched up' for on street riding... which in itself is 
nefficient
and may lead to assumptions about 'lifting' pedals...  I know that the prime
consideration in downhill seems to be lower c of g for balance and control
with pedalling limited to negotiating smaller segments of the course, which 
f
course is gravity powered mostly...  I acknowledge that under these 
onditions
of racing/training things are likely quite different than 'cruising'...
Just like my race cars weren't much use on the road for commuting or touring.
 
... Lost dog: 3 legs, no tail, castrated, blind in one eye. Named Lucky.
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** A related thread FOLLOWS this message.

FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 150 BIKE NET      Ref: EFPD3306 Date: 11/20/97
From: DALE KRIMMER                                          Time: 09:55am
\/To: DOUG CARTER                                         (Read 2 times)
Subj: R: Re: pedals!

DT> No, there's no "pull" per se.  The efficiency comes from being
  >able to
  > DT> spin quickly without losing the pedals.
  > Actually there is quite a bit of 'pull' power available...
  >I can't comment on how effective it is to off road enthusiasts, but I can
  >talk about on road use...
  >The biggest efficiency comes from being able to balance out your exertions
  >over more muscles, and over a wider portion of the pedaling cycle...
  >Without any attachment to the pedals, power can only be applied to the pedal
  >over a limited arc for each foot...I'm not quoting exact figures here, but
  >if you look at your pedals you will see that the rear side of the range
  >is useless for pedalling at all, same for most of the area top and bottom
  > of the front side... only when you get 20 to 30 degrees forward of the top
  >can you make much of downward push (although you might get a bit of forward
  >depending on how you sit the bike) and it will fall off in the same area
  >of the lower front... thus you may get 100 degrees of push total, times two
  >for two feet...  and all your power must be applied during that time to move
  >you, and by the same muscles...
  >Attaching the feet, you can match lift and push front and rear, which means
  >two different muscle groups can share the load, each working less at the sam
  >time... then resting while the cycle reverses...  now add another group to
  >move the feet thru the top/bottom portions and you are now using the whole
  >cycle with less effort and more efficiently... that is how you can keep it
  >up hour after hour... so it is desireable...
I remember reading about just this in Bicycling a few years back.  It
seems all the racers felt they were able to "pull" the rear pedal
upwards for more speed.  Bicycling published the results of a scientific
study which had a type of load cell thing attached to each pedal and a
computer charting the forces on it.  They were surprised to find that
even the best racers didn't "pull" the rear pedal up, no matter how hard
they tried.  This was contrary to conventional thinking, so they ran
several more tests to confirm.  The conclusion was that, when you think
you are pulling the rear pedal up, you are actually only unweighting it
so the front can push down faster.  I don't have the article here, but
I'm sure someone else will remember it, too.  Anyway, it DOES have the
same effect, using different muscles to lift the rear foot, allowing the
front one to move faster, it's just that the rear foot really doesn't
pull as most people think it does.
---
 þ QMPro 1.0 12-3333 þ My favorite brand of beer? Whatever SHE'S buying!

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FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 150 BIKE NET      Ref: EFN00005 Date: 11/15/97
From: DOUG CARTER                                           Time: 06:26pm
\/To: SCOTT ERIK ANDERSON                                 (Read 2 times)
Subj: Re: perils of the Lions G

 -=> Quoting Scott Erik Anderson to All <=-
 SEA> Presumably everyone knows by now that Larry Zimich was apparently
 SEA> punted  deliberately onto the Lions Gate bridge deck last week by two
 SEA> bridge  workers, nearly killing him. See Friday's North Shore News or
 SEA> Saturday's  Vancouver Sun, front pages both.
Hi there...   this was noticed, on TV since I did not see the paper up here..
            I hope they keep after those guys... and others... with suitable
            charges attached... not just because a cyclist was involved, but
            because such things can not be allowed to happen in general...
            I suspect that someone knows who was working that day and hour...
 SEA> Here's the letter I just sent to the Sun, which is probably far too 
 SEA> pompous to publish, but was awfully fun to write:
Good for you... but I can't say I agree with reacting to abuse with more
abuse... since backlash can be worse than the original offence.  On the other
hand, creating a regular stream of witnesses on the site looking for offences
to report, might cause someone to miss work often enough to get fired... or
cause questions as to why THEY were not willing to return to a given job 
ite.
I bet they would not be too likely to admit to being the search objects in
an assault case...
I hear Toronto has had a bad year for cycling related 'accidents' too.
 
... Urinalysis: The study of pissed off people.
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