CS> 
CS> Apparently Visual Builder is written in Smalltalk.  Perhaps 
CS> this accounts for its voracious memory appetite and slow 
CS> performance. If that's the case, it makes me wonder why 
CS> anybody would want to use Smalltalk for developing 
CS> commercial software such as Visual Builder.

I don't know either. We were going to build a whole suite of "Business
Objects" using VisualAge, but after a brief eval period, it was dropped
because of the laughable performance. It had the visual environment
that was a neat concept, but it was too slow. You'd eventually develop
a rhythm... Click, get a cup of coffee. Click, Drink the coffee. Click,
read a magazine. I can't imagine why IBM would have used it to write a
front end for a C++ compiler!

CS> I don't mind spending an extra few thousand dollars on 
CS> hardware to get good performance with tools that make me 
CS> more productive as long as the end result (the programs 
CS> other people will be using) are reasonably fast and not 
CS> memory pigs.  So far, I've been using ICLUI (renamed to 
CS> OpenClass in VisualAge C++) for user interface development 
CS> and have been pleased with both the development benefits 
CS> and the end-result performance.

That's good to hear. I was hoping ICLUI apps wouldn't be as slow as
the IBM tools used to build them. I'm just getting into ICLUI, and it
looks like a nice library.


CS> Visual Builder seems like a giant memory pig compared to 
CS> the C++ compiler itself.  That's not to say it isn't 
CS> useful.  Out of the two visual programming tools I've tried 
CS> for C++ (VisPro/C++ and Visual Builder), Visual Builder is 
CS> by far a more comprehensive and powerful tool.  I'm hoping 
CS> that the final release will be good enough to be something 
CS> I can use on a regular basis.

I'm curious about it. (I'm also developing a visual design environment
along these lines, so any info is useful...) Is there such a thing as a
"Property" in VisAgeC++? If so, is it accessed from a
"Properties"
window or something, like in VB?

CS> I guess what I'd like to see is a Smalltalk-like environment for
CS> C++  programming,

... Kind of like the Symantec environment for Windows.. That seems
like a cool environment, where you're not so tied to header files,
etc., and you can manipulate class hierarchies, etc. visually. Plus,
the browser actually browses before you have a running program, which
is what I always thought it should be like.


CS> Ada-style separately compiled interface and implementation  modules
CS> (rather than the stupid *.h and *.hpp files and the  preprocessor),
CS> and an incremental C++ compiler and linker  that would allow C++
CS> code to be quickly recompiled and  tested.

I like the idea of an incremental C++ compiler, something really fast
for the development process, and then the ability to use another
compiler for the "final build" whose purpose is to make good object
code. Actually, what I'd like is to have something a co-worker told me
he'd seen on UNIX, something called "Saber-C", which is an integrated
editor/debugger/interpreter, where you can step through program code,
edit it, watch variables, etc., all on the fly. A C++ interpreter. It
seems like it would be next to impossible to write, and even worse to
run on a PC, but _that_ would be cool!

CS> From the little I've heard of Taligent's programming tools due out
CS> on OS/2  later this year, they might come close to deliverying what 
CS> I'd like to have for a development environment.  On the  other hand,
CS> I have no idea what sort of CPU, RAM, and disk  requirements they
CS> will have. 

I haven't heard anything about them, but I think "huge" is a good
place to start.

Regards,
Kelly

___
 X KWQ/2 1.2g NR X Windows, NT, Bob, & Windows 95: on the next
"Gong Show"!

--- Maximus/2 2.02