*** Quoting Ron Taylor from a message to Carol Shenkenberger ***
CS>Interesting!  Everyplace I have lived in the last 10 years, seems to be
  >different.  What part of the country are you from? Cant tell from your
  >tagline.
RT> I live in Alabama and frequently travel all the states from Florida to
RT> Virginia to Louisiana.  The states that I've found the worst for
RT> non-smokers are the Carolinas, Virginia, and Kentucky.  It seems that
RT> anyone who opposes tobacco usage in any form are not welcome there.  I
RT> suppose thats because of the high influence of the tobacco industry in
RT> that area.
I have traveled through Alabama a few times, but never stayed long enough to 
note anything specific about it.
I dont think it's the tobacco industry here, just a different view of things. 
The bigger cities are more enlightened.  Small towns are not.
I don't eat out often (just not our thing) but when I do, I'm normally in a 
group with several non-smokers, so we all sit in non-smoking areas.
CS>Sadly, I have seen that in some places.  I'm more used to California where
  >the  law (before the smoke free came in) had most establishments have
  >literally  separate AC systems and solid walls between the two locations.
RT> That is an acceptable compromise to me.  I have no problem with anyone
RT> smoking as long as I don't have to participate.
I think it's fine too.  In CA, I was used to even outdoor activities having a 
'smoking section'.  Made sense to me.
RT> Being so adamantly anti-smoking, I think a total ban is acceptable.
RT> The only place that should be sacred is one's home.  _There_, you have
RT> right to do (IMO) what you will, as you see fit.  My choice is to not
RT> visit if I disagree.
Well, we will have to agree to disagree on that one.  If things are properly 
separated, it should be fine.
CS>  >populace  smokes, and that 20% simply didnt dine out as often when they
  >  >changed the laws  there.  Restraunts, many of them, just couldnt 
urvive
  >an
  >  >almost 20% loss of  business.
CS>Seems to not ave been a 'boycott' but just a tendancy to not bother to eat
  >out  as often.
RT> That was three to four years ago.  Am I to believe that now, there are
RT> no good restaurants left in California?  That the  industry folded
RT> because of the smoke-free laws?
I didnt say 'no good restraunts'.  I said several went under, not all by a 
longshot.  It did hurt them all to one extent or another.  Even the 
previously 'smoke-free' ones where hurt, because they were no longer 
'special'.  OH!  One set was not hurt, but benefitted.  In 1995 (not sure 
now), if you served alcohol, you were not restricted.  Many restraunts 
started serving wine or beer as an option, so were not required to go 
smoke-free.  Those folks did a resounding business, but there were not many 
of them.
I found it amusing slightly to see the tiny separate 'smoking section with 
individual AC' become a non-smoking section.  Remember Dearone, these places 
were few and far apart and the doors had notifications so you wouldnt go to 
one accidentally.  I'd hazard a _guess_ they were 3% of the eating places.
RT> Sadly, most who are forced to step outside stand as near the door as
RT> possible, as if to intentionally force the non-smoker to walk through
RT> cloud of smoke to get to the door.  I've had smokers quite forcefully
RT> blow smoke in my direction when I indicated a displeasure at it.  They
RT> take some kind of pleasure in the fact that they are now "outside" and
RT> immune to the prohibitive laws inside.  The would punish me for my
RT> part in the laws that force them outside. These few "militant" smokers
RT> are the ones who bring about the laws.
Well, such folks are actually rare who will blow it at you deliberately, 
unless perhaps your method of showing 'displeasure' was not as politely done 
as intended?
As to smoking near the doorway, sorry but look about.  Thats normally where 
the establishment puts the ashtrays.  Ask the establishment to move them a 
bit farther away, and the folks will migrate to there.
Conversely there is a place I go to here in Norfolk.  It has 2 entrances, 
about 20 feet from each other.  1 has the ashtray, the other does not.  I'd 
expect anyone who didnt want to be near my smoke, to use the other one.  Yet, 
I've had folks deliberately walk all the way over the the side with the 
ashtray, and ask me to put out my cigarette, so they could walk in that 
particular door without smelling it.  Thats just rude.
RT> We agree as long as "reasonable" means that I can participate in any
RT> publicly available activity that you can and am _TOTALLY_ free of
RT> cigarette smoke while doing so.
RT> For example, I had to stop for gasoline this weekend.  The convenience

I do see that you have run into inappropriate smoking situations, but change 
takes time.  Just trying to make it illegal to smoke anyplace outside one's 
home, isnt the answer however.  Mutual respect is.  That means on *both* 
sides.
It includes, not putting the only outdoor ashtray, where you have to walk 
then complaining because folks use it.
And finally, this is a minor thing to the police.  Unless the smoking is by a 
fuel pump or something stupid like that, it's more a civil issue.
                                       xxcarol
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