From: "Rich" 

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   Every program on earth does not have File Edit View but that is =
besides the point.  IE7 didn't just hide the classic menu but also added =
new menus on the toolbar the most obvious of which are the Page and Tool =
buttons which have what are the most common actions for me.  Again, what =
is it from the classic menus that is necessary for IE to be usable for =
you?

   I can't tell you why the name was changed from OE.  If I had to =
speculate I would guess that it is because many folks would =
unintentionally or intentionally confuse OE with Outlook.  I've seen =
people do this in these newsgroups a number of times.

   You can't compare your system services to mine because you have your =
system configured differently than mine.  Even then, as I mentioned =
before, a count is not a measure of attack surface.  In many cases =
services were split to reduce attack surface by replacing one high =
privlege level services with one high and one or more lower privilege =
level services.  I suspect other differences specific to you are that = you
have disabled random services in Windows 2000 but have not yet = attempted
the same with Vista.  And for what it's worth, none of the = services
running on my machines have anything to do with DRM.  Your DRM = obsession
has you not only imagining things but lying about the things = you imagine.

   If you don't like IPv6 you can turn it off.  You can turn off IPv4 if =
you wish.  I think you worry about the wrong stuff.

   If you want to turn off Windows Defender maybe you should look at the =
help.  It took me just a few seconds to find the topic "Turn Windows =
Defender on or off".

Rich

  "Geo"  wrote in message
news:458f7325{at}w3.nls.net...
  Ok fine, so why does every frelling windows program on earth have a =
File Edit View menu bar then if it's not needed? Are you slo or =
something? You been hanging out with Kai from Kai's power tools or Paul =
Bun from Ultrabac that you suddenly don't understand what consistancy = is?
You never used File/Open or Edit/copy?

  Is a name like OE important to me, no I can deal with calling it =
Windows Mail AGAIN, except last time the name changed it was actually a =
different program. Anyway, since the name isn't important, WHY CHANGE = IT?
Oh right, it's not paint though..

  Number of services, I'm coming from W2K not XP. I have 37 services =
running on my W2K laptop including 3 thinkpad services, sygate, 3 avg =
services,  that means 30 for windows. 69 you say, lets see that's a 130% =
increase? soundcard service, drm related? how many of these are required =
for drm/copyprotection?

  IPv6 running by default is totally un-needed on most of the machines =
in the US, thus it increases surface area for hacking on all those =
machines, heck we finally got rid of netbeui and IPX and we get stuck =
with another unneeded protocol?  ssdp wasn't that the first remote anon =
exploit for XP, have we learned nothing?

  How the hell do I uninstall this stupid windows defender crap? I'm a =
grownup, I don't need no damn babysitter.

  Oh, I went to disable the license service and it threatened me with =
reduced functionality, I disabled it anyway and guess what, no reduced =
functionality? Time delayed or idle threat?

  Geo.
    "Rich"  wrote in message news:458f0097{at}w3.nls.net...
       Are you intentionally blind or just trying to appear ignorant.

       Regarding IE7, what is present on the classic menus that is not =
present on the new toolbar menus that is necessary for IE to be usable?

       There are an enormous number of improvements and new features =
both in the platform and the applications.  If you only can see what you =
call "new paint" you would be blind to much of this.  Of what you
call = "new paint" there is much of this too none of which has
the purpose you = made up.

       Windows Mail is the name for the new version of what was Outlook =
Express which is the name for the newer versions of what was Internet =
Mail and News.  Is the name important to you?

       The number of services running on my Windows XP system is 60 =
while the number on my Windows Vista Ultimate system is 69.  While the =
number of services increased by 15% the number of service processes =
decreased from 23 to 15 or 34%.  The extra services provide greater =
granularity.  This is with my having enabled a number of optional =
services on my Windows Vista system so the decrease should be even =
greater for you.  There are also fewer ports open though most of these =
are blocked by the firewall on both systems.  Finally, the privilege =
level of the existing services has been reduced even further it was in =
Windows XP.  In other words, there is less attack surface.

    Rich

      "Geo"  wrote in message =
news:458ea6c6$1{at}w3.nls.net...
      So after a few days running vista on my mail laptop I've come to =
the
      conclusion that the reason Microsoft does things like turning off =
the menu
      bar in IE7 is just to make it look different because it certainly =
isn't for
      added functionality as I had to turn it back on to make it =
useable.

      Seems there is a lot of new paint who's only purpose is to hide =
the fact
      that it's still a Windows 2000 system with not much new except DRM =
and a few
      frills and ok there are a handful of .1 release type improvements =
like task
      manager.

      Windows mail is outlook express.

      Spider solitare has been improved with really annoying cards and
      highlighting and it now sucks up way more resources.

      Networking with W2K is just as bad as it was with XP. Maybe worse.

      IPv6 is enabled by default, why is beyond me, perhaps they just =
wanted to
      provide more surface area for hackers?

      The number of running services has increased to the point of being
      rediculous.

      The user whatever the hell it's called feature that questions your =
every
      command does have an off switch and I really can't believe there =
is anyone
      who won't turn it off.

      I'm going to run it for at least a couple more months but at this =
point I
      much prefer W2K or even  xp.. I sincerely believe that Vista =
was
      designed by marketing not by geeks and certainly not by anyone who =
uses a
      computer more than an hour a day.

      Geo.


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   Every
program on earth =
does not have=20
File Edit View but that is besides the point.  IE7 didn't just hide = the=20
classic menu but also added new menus on the toolbar the most obvious of = which=20
are the Page and Tool buttons which have what are the most common = actions for=20
me.  Again, what is it from the classic menus that is necessary
for = IE to=20
be usable for you?
 
   I can't
tell you why the =
name was=20
changed from OE.  If I had to speculate I would guess that it is =
because=20
many folks would unintentionally or intentionally confuse OE with =
Outlook. =20
I've seen people do this in these newsgroups a number of =
times.
 
   You can't compare =
your system=20
services to mine because you have your system configured differently = than=20
mine.  Even then, as I mentioned before, a count is not a measure
= of attack=20
surface.  In many cases services were split to reduce attack = surface by=20
replacing one high privlege level services with one high and one or more = lower=20
privilege level services.  I suspect other differences specific to
= you are=20
that you have disabled random services in Windows 2000 but have not yet=20
attempted the same with Vista.  And for what it's worth, none of =
the=20
services running on my machines have anything to do with DRM.  Your = DRM=20
obsession has you not only imagining things but lying about the things = you=20
imagine.
 
   If you
don't like IPv6 you =
can turn it=20
off.  You can turn off IPv4 if you wish.  I think you
worry = about the=20
wrong stuff.
 
   If you
want to turn off =
Windows=20
Defender maybe you should look at the help.  It took me just a few
= seconds=20
to find the topic "Turn
Windows Defender on or =
off".
 
Rich
 

  "Geo" <georger{at}nls.net>">mailto:georger{at}nls.net">georger{at}nls.net>
wrote=20
  in message news:458f7325{at}w3.nls.net...
  Ok fine, so why does every frelling =
windows=20
  program on earth have a File Edit View menu bar then if it's not =
needed? Are=20
  you slo or something? You been hanging out with Kai from Kai's power =
tools or=20
  Paul Bun from Ultrabac that you suddenly don't understand what =
consistancy is?=20
  You never used File/Open or Edit/copy?
   
  Is a name like OE important
to me, no =
I can deal=20
  with calling it Windows Mail AGAIN, except last time the name changed =
it was=20
  actually a different program. Anyway, since the name isn't important, =
WHY=20
  CHANGE IT? Oh right, it's not paint though..
   
  Number of services, I'm coming from =
W2K not XP. I=20
  have 37 services running on my W2K laptop including 3 thinkpad =
services,=20
  sygate, 3 avg services,  that means 30 for windows. 69 you say, =
lets see=20
  that's a 130% increase? soundcard service, drm related? how many of =
these are=20
  required for drm/copyprotection?
   
  IPv6 running by default is totally =
un-needed on=20
  most of the machines in the US, thus it increases surface area for =
hacking on=20
  all those machines, heck we finally got rid of netbeui and IPX and we =
get=20
  stuck with another unneeded protocol?  ssdp wasn't that the =
first=20
  remote anon exploit for XP, have we learned nothing?
   
  How the hell do I uninstall this =
stupid windows=20
  defender crap? I'm a grownup, I don't need no damn=20
  babysitter.
   
  Oh, I went to disable the license =
service and it=20
  threatened me with reduced functionality, I disabled it anyway and =
guess what,=20
  no reduced functionality? Time delayed or idle threat?
   
  Geo.
  

    "Rich" <{at}> wrote in message news:458f0097{at}w3.nls.net...
       Are
you intentionally =
blind or=20
    just trying to appear ignorant.
     
      
Regarding IE7, what is =
present on=20
    the classic menus that is not present on the new toolbar menus that =
is=20
    necessary for IE to be usable?
     
       There
are an enormous =
number of=20
    improvements and new features both in the platform and the=20
    applications.  If you only can see what you call "new paint" =
you would=20
    be blind to much of this.  Of what you call "new
paint" there =
is much=20
    of this too none of which has the purpose you made up.
     
      
Windows Mail is the =
name for the=20
    new version of what was Outlook Express which is the name for the =
newer=20
    versions of what was Internet Mail and News.  Is the name =
important to=20
    you?
     
       The
number of services =
running on=20
    my Windows XP system is 60 while the number on my Windows Vista =
Ultimate=20
    system is 69.  While the number of services increased =
by 15% the=20
    number of service processes decreased from 23 to 15 or 34%.  =
The extra=20
    services provide greater granularity.  This is with my having =
enabled a=20
    number of optional services on my Windows Vista system so the =
decrease=20
    should be even greater for you.  There are also fewer ports =
open though=20
    most of these are blocked by the firewall on both systems.  =
Finally,=20
    the privilege level of the existing services has been reduced even =
further=20
    it was in Windows XP.  In other words, there is less attack=20
    surface.
     
    Rich
     
    
      "Geo" <georger{at}nls.net>=20">mailto:georger{at}nls.net">georger{at}nls.net>=20
      wrote in message news:458ea6c6$1{at}w3.nls.net...So=20
      after a few days running vista on my mail laptop I've come to=20
      theconclusion that the reason Microsoft does things like =
turning off=20
      the menubar in IE7 is just to make it look different because =
it=20
      certainly isn't foradded functionality as I had to turn it =
back on to=20
      make it useable.Seems there is a lot of new paint who's =
only=20
      purpose is to hide the factthat it's still a Windows 2000 =
system with=20
      not much new except DRM and a fewfrills and ok there are a =
handful of=20
      .1 release type improvements like
taskmanager.Windows =
mail is=20
      outlook express.Spider solitare has been improved with =
really=20
      annoying cards andhighlighting and it now sucks up way more=20
      resources.Networking with W2K is just as bad as it was =
with XP.=20
      Maybe worse.IPv6 is enabled by default, why is beyond me, =
perhaps=20
      they just wanted toprovide more surface area for =
hackers?The=20
      number of running services has increased to the point of=20
      beingrediculous.The user whatever the
hell it's called =
feature=20
      that questions your everycommand does have an off switch and I =
really=20
      can't believe there is anyonewho won't turn it
off.I'm =
going=20
      to run it for at least a couple more months but at this point =
Imuch=20
      prefer W2K or even <gulp> xp.. I sincerely believe that =
Vista=20
      wasdesigned by marketing not by geeks and certainly not by =
anyone who=20
      uses acomputer more than an hour a=20
  =
day.Geo.

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