Replying to a message of JIM WELLER to BOB ACKLEY:

 JW> -=> Quoting Bob Ackley to Jim Weller <=-

 BA>> In countries that have socialized health care (aka
 BA>> 'universal' health care) the actual costs of providing
 BA>> that care are hidden

 JW> How is it hidden? The federal budget is a public document.

The true costs of providing the care don't appear on the bills.  While
the government's budget is a public document, for all practical purposers
it's indecipherable - especially to non-experts.  Canada's budget process
may differ from that of the US government but I'm inclined to doubt it.
Shucks, when I worked for an Omaha hospital I about went nuts trying to
figure out their account structure (and was not successful); that's in one
not-very-large institution; note that I have a BS in Health Care Administration
with 3 semesters of accounting plus one of financial management and one
more of each at the graduate level (I didn't finish my master's).

 BA>> In the US, government sponsored health care (IOW Medicare)
 BA>> does *not* pay the costs of providing health care to the
 BA>> elderly.

 BA>> Medicare has for decades been notorious for (1) slow pay
 BA>> (90 days after submission of the bill is not unusual, most
 BA>> industries require payment within 30 days), (2)
 BA>> disallowing charges it doesn't like and (3) writing itself
 BA>> huge discounts (sometimes more than half of the amount) on
 BA>> the bills presented.

 JW> Canada has caps which are negogiated between the federal
 JW> government and the CMA. Perhaps that is one reason are
 JW> costs are less. Doctors in the NWT are on salary with the
 JW> Dept. of Health. GPs make $80 per hour, most specialists
 JW> around $160. I suspect many American doctors make far more.

And their expenses are far higher.  Your salaried doctors don't have
to pay for office space, office help, computers, equipment and
professional liability insurance.  I would expect that your salaried
doctors net more income - and work fewer hours.

 JW> And your drugs cost more too. We got the whole country
 JW> vacinated ( or at least the 90% of the population who
 JW> wanted it) against swine flu before Dec. 1 at $8 a pop.

Drugs are expensive because pharmaceutical research is very
expensive.  When you figure that less than ten percent of the
drugs that are developed ever see the public market you can see
why.  The cost of developing all of those drugs that never make it
to market has to be factored into the price of those that do; further,
in the US, patents on drugs run out fairly quickly so those costs have
to be recovered fairly quickly.  Yes, the price of drugs in Canada - 
and in other countries - is capped by the government; and I note that
there seems to be very little pharmaceutical research being done in
countries where the prices of drugs are government controlled.

 BA>> congress routinely underfunds those programs because
 BA>> they are expen$ive

 JW> I agree with that statement, both halves.

 BA>> There's no reason to expect that anything devised by those
 BA>> 537 pompous, preening, posturing gasbags (I include the
 BA>> executive along with congress) will accomplish anything
 BA>> other than the destruction of the US health care system -
 BA>> and the US economy.

 JW> Did you know there are 6 times as many registered lobbyists
 JW> trying to influence your politicians instead of leaving
 JW> them alone to study the matter and thik things through?

I'm certainly not surprised.  IMO in the United States there is
no such thing as an honest politician; at the national level we
have 537 specific examples.

 BA>> Alaska - like Texas - might be able to escape some of the
 BA>> damage because of its oil revenues.  Texas built a
 BA>> terrific public health system using revenues from its oil
 BA>> industry

 JW> I would hate to be living in a poor rural county in
 JW> Missiippi or Louisiana though.

I'd hate to be living in Canada other than, maybe, in southern BC near
the coast.  It's just too d*mn cold up there.  Right now it's a whopping
ten degrees F and we've had blizzard conditions here since Wednesday
afternoon, and they'll continue until sometime Saturday.  Canada is
about 300 miles farther north.

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