Hi Bob,
-=> On 05 Jul 97  10:57:17 Bob Moylan said to Andrew Grillet <=-
 BM> Andrew Grillet (On 01 Jul 97) was overheard expounding to MARK PROBERT 
 
 AG> No. Corporal punishment means punishing the body -
 BM> Precisely - physical punishment that if inflicted on an adult would
 BM> constitute assault with battery.
I don't use AA cells for this myself :-) 
 
 AG> and not necessarily participation in S&M.
 BM> S&M on this side of the pond, in common usage/understanding refers to
 BM> kinky sexual activities - does it mean something else there? (I have
 BM> known some pretty sadistic "educators" so perhaps there is something
 BM> there)
 
It appears that some people cannot tell the difference between a slap 
on the wrist and various activities involving whips and leather. Rumour
has it that many of them are conservative MPs.
 AG> At my school we were made to run around carrying stones. Nobody
 AG> was ever beaten.
 BM> Not corporal punishment as I understand the term nor as, I think, it
 BM> is understood by most USAmericans.  I coach little league (baseball),
 BM> after what _I_ consider to be a suitable period of instruction, boys
 BM> who still insist on doing it _their_ way do pushups and run laps.
This IS corporal punishment.
  AG> I would not consider slapping a kid on the back of the hand with three
 AG> fingers to be 'assaault',
 BM> But it is... a physical punishment has been inflicted....and how many
 BM> times do you think that it is going to be simply a 3 fingered slap
 BM> on the hand before it escalates into a fist in the face or stomach..
 BM> or more?
 
I have been a parent for 26 years, and a grandparent for six years. 
It has never escalated in my family. In fact, I believe the reverse to
be true. It is the parent who believes that a slap on the wrist and a 
boot in the face are the same thing that is more likely to apply the 
boot.
 AG> but I would consider locking a four year old in a room for even a
 AG> few minutes to be cruel. Others don't agree with me.
 BM> You are referring to "time out".  I'll agree that "locking" any child
 BM> into a room is not called for, however, sending a child to his/her
 BM> room or a pre-designated spot where she/he has to stay quietly for X
 BM> number of minutes (1 minute for each year of age is a fair rule of
 BM> thumb) gives adult and child time to think before things degenerate
 BM> into a physical confrontation.  
I like your guide rule.
 BM> IMNSHO far preferable to an immediate "smack" any place on the 
 BM> kid's body.
I and many others choose to disagree. On some occasions it may be 
preferable , on others it may not.
 BM> I find it more than strange that little attention is
 BM> given to the majority of students who excel ... doesn't sell
 BM> newspapers or increase ratings ...
 
Apparently not. 
 BM> I'll throw out a couple of my "pet" ideas....
 BM> I do think that the education establishment needs to better police
 BM> itself to weed out those obvious incompetents and, if they are
 BM> incapable of doing so, an outside body should be created to do so.
We are in the middle of an intense political row in which the teachers'
unions are vigorously opposing the idea that teachers be sacked just 
because they are incompetent.
 BM> Classroom teachers should be given authority to, with good
 BM> documentation, refuse admittance to their classroom those few who
 BM> are continually disruptive to the learning process of others. 
For making a rude face behind teacher's back to another kid in 
primary school? For dropping a pencil by accident? For passing a note?
For being deliberately accused of any of the above by a another 
trouble-making pupil?
 BM> disruptive students should be required to, without exception, attend
 BM> alternative schools with higher levels of control built in.
 
The problem is provision of alternative shools. No one wants to fund them, 
run them, or have them located near where they live.
We have the above mentioned disciplinary tactics. Unfortunately we have no
others. It simply doesn't work with all kids in all situations. We need
more ideas.
I don't have them. Incidentally I was appointed as a school govenor
today - unopposed - two vacancies, only one candidate.
Andrew
... I've got a Mickey Mouse PC with a Goofy operating system.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR]
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