In the thread, "Sanctification," Matthew Johnson wrote:...

> And that is a pretty poor reason. For what _you_ call
"dispensational
> distinctives" are no such thing. They are mere excuses for perverting
Scripture.

Matthew, your obvious desire to attack and condemn dispensationalism
rather than to understand it often leads you into many
misinterpretations and subsequent misrepresentations of dispensational
teachings.  You oppose the dispensational teaching that God has two
distinct elect peoples-Israel and the church-both redeemed and brought
into relationship with Him on the basis of Christ's redemptive
sacrifice but with different divine programs.  This is understandable,
because your view of grace demands a single group of redeemed people
without distinctions, a view no longer held even by many Reformed
covenant theologians.  Your position in the past has been that Israel
must be the church in the OT and the church must be the new Israel that
inherits all the promises to Israel.  However, I have consistently
maintained that recognizing the dispensational distinctions in God's
dealings with the human race, the distinction between Israel and the
church in particular, is a more consistent biblical position.  This
view recognizes that in the one flock of God's redeemed people under
the one Shepherd Jesus Christ, more than one fold exists (John 10:16),
following the pattern of ancient shepherding.

In Scripture Israel's distinctiveness rests in God's choosing the
nation as a special people for Himself (Deut. 7:6).  This choice had
numerous purposes such as being the vehicle for God's revelation to
mankind (Rom. 3:2) and the ethnic line of the Lord Jesus Christ (9:5).
This choice was based on God's oath to the forefathers (Deut. 7:8),
which oath is the Abrahamic Covenant (Gen. 17:1-8), the token of which
is circumcision of every male Israelite (vv. 9-14).  Since this
covenant, confirmed through Isaac (vv. 19, 21) instead of Ishmael, was
"an everlasting covenant" (vv. 7, 13, 19), God's choice of Israel
ethnically as a special people also is everlasting.  This truth is
confirmed by God's promise through Jeremiah that Israel will continue
as a nation as long as the sun, moon, and stars endure (Jer. 31:35-37;
33:19-26); in fact it will be a reunited nation (Ezek. 37:15-28),
healing the division that occurred under Rehoboam (1 Kings 12:16-24).

This separate identity of Israel in distinction from the Gentiles and
from "the church of God" (1 Cor. 10:32) continues in the NT.  It was
recognized by Paul (Rom. 3:1-2; 9:3-5; 10:1-3), who insisted that "God
has not rejected His people" (11:1-2a).  Paul supported this conclusion
of God's continuing choice of Israel with two arguments:  (a) "At the
present time [there is] a remnant according to God's gracious choice"
(v. 5), including Paul himself, that becomes part of the body of
Christ, the church (Eph. 2:13-18).  (b) Later after "the fulness of the
Gentiles has come in . . . all Israel will be saved" (Rom. 11:25-26)
because "the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable" (v. 29).
This final salvation of Israel is seen at least in part in the "one
hundred and forty-four thousand sealed from every tribe of the sons of
Israel" (Rev. 7:4-8) and in the repentance of Israel at the Lord Jesus'
return to earth (Zech. 12:9-13:1, 9).

Because of God's everlasting covenant with Israel as His chosen ethnic
people, the nation has title to "all the land of Canaan, for an
everlasting possession" (Gen. 17:8; cf. 13:14-17; 15:7-21).  Possession
obviously does not mean occupancy, because Israel was removed from the
land during the Assyrian and Babylonian conquests and following the
Roman destruction of Jerusalem.  In fact God had forewarned Israel of
her dispersions from the land (Deut. 28:36-37, 49-50, 64-67), but He
had also promised her restoration (30:1-6).  Possession means
ownership, a God-given title that will finally result in occupancy.
That final return and occupancy is mentioned repeatedly (Isa. 11:11-12;
14:1-3; 60:21; Jer. 16:13-16; 23:5-8; 30:1-11; 32:37-44; Ezek.
11:14-20; 20:42; 34:13; 36:16-28; 37:21-28).  These verses are cited
simply to show the extensiveness of this promise.  They indicate that
God will restore His people Israel to their land to which He gave them
title, especially when tied with Acts 3:20-21, which identifies the
fulfillment of these things with the return of Jesus Christ from
heaven.

In addition to Israel's continuation as God's chosen people and her
continuing title to the promised land is her continuation as a
political entity, a nation.  This involves God's covenant with David
concerning the everlasting establishment of David's house (lineage),
kingdom, and throne (2 Sam. 7:16; cf. vv. 24-25; Ps. 89:19-37).  God
stated that sin by David's descendants would bring divine chastisement
(2 Sam. 7:14; Ps. 89:30-32), but that His mercy would not depart from
them as He had removed it from Saul (2 Sam. 7:15; Ps. 89:28-29, 33-37).
Confirmation and fulfillment of this covenant are predicted by the
prophets in conjunction with Israel's final regathering from the ends
of the earth (Jer. 33:14-26; Ezek. 37:20-28; Hos. 3:4-5; Amos 9:11-15).
Christ will institute the fulfillment of all these promises to Israel
and David (Luke 1:32-33) in His return to earth to establish His
messianic kingdom (Acts 3:20-21; Rev. 19:11-20:10).

>From past experience, I'm sure you would reject the literal
interpretation of Isaiah 11 and spiritualize the wolf and the lamb (pp.
88, 90-91).  In the past you have maintained an amillenialist position
(though you have confessed of not caring for that term).  I'm sure, if
you were ever to provide a positive sentence in the debate it would
read something like "We might ask, first of all, whether there is clear
evidence elsewhere in Scripture that there is to be a thousand years of
perfect peace and harmony of nature in this world under the Messiah?
We think, in fact, that there is not only no clear evidence of a
millennium in Scripture, but there is no evidence."  Yet the truth is,
this not only flies in the face of the repetition of the phrase
"thousand years" six times in Revelation 20:1-7 (which you obviously
also are forced to spiritualize), but ignores the repeated teaching of
Scripture concerning the future kingdom for Israel and its character
(e.g., Isa. 2:1-5; 4:2-6; 9:6-7; 11:1-12:6; 14:1-3; Zech. 8:1-8;
14:1-21; Acts 1:6-7; 3:20-21; 1 Cor. 15:20-26).

Shall I continue with the distinctives of the Church?  Need I debate
with you your charge of antinomianism?  But are easily done.  But why
should I go to all that trouble if you are not willing to take an
honest look at the scriptural record as noted above for the case for
millennialism.  Again, there has never been an amil answer to Peter's
massive 3 volume work, "Theocratic Kingdom."  To argue against both the
dispensational distinctives between Israel and the Church, not to
mention Law and Grace, you must resort to relativism in
spiritualization of the pertainent scriptural texts, claim that
normative reading is the poisonous outer husk which must be discarded
in order to dig into the deeper, gnostic meaning hidden within.

It always comes back to methodology.  And here only the
grammatical/historical school remains  consistent.  In their day, the
scriptures were always written in the common tongue.  They were to be
read in a normative manner.  The literalist hermeneutic is the
normative hermeneutic.  As you read any other document relating truth,
laws of speach are recognized.  But you pervert this by haphazardly,
willie-nillie determining which passages are to be read literally and
which are to be interpreted allegorically.  God is not the God of
confusion.  The reason you are wrong at several points in your theology
is because you do not proceed from proper hermeneutic -the very one
used by Christ and the apostles- literalism.

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