From: Bill Lucy 

In article ,
rgparker{at}west.net says...
MPG.137f3b74bbe80e1398983c{at}news.barkto.com>, note these cogitations
> from blucy{at}mediaone.net Bill Lucy:
> > > Then none of us are free?
> >
> > This could be a great thread on its own. After reading some things recently
and
> > hearing a radio program, I'm beginning to have my doubts.
>
> What things in particular make you have doubts?

One, a recently published book -- "Unspeakable Acts, Ordinary People:
The Dynamics of Torture" by John Conroy. It's a book about the
rationale behind torture from the standpoint of both torturer and victim.
The horrific part for me was that most people involved in torture are
ordinary people. Not as surprising was that one of the incidents that was
documented was here in Chicago, and of very recent time.

Another was a demonstration of how easy it is to be totalitarian while
thinking one is "free". It involved an experiment done in the 80s
with a 7th grade social studies class in Connecticut. Almost everyone,
including 7th graders not in the class, became involved in what to our eyes
might be a mob action.

It doesn't involve much abstraction to realize that the difference between
"thinking for yourself" and having someone think for you are
minor.

> I think you have to differentiate between whether we are free and what
> we do with the freedom.

Of course, I think I'm free. But Juan Miguel Gonzalez also believes he is
free. Who is right is much more a sense of perspective than most of us care
to admit.

> How do you measure whether we are free? What is available to us to learn
> and to try to do? Or what we do (or not do) with it all?

I'm not really sure that as individuals we are capable of determining
whether we are free. Do you think you have the tools to do it?

I'm hoping this thread doesn't devolve. I think it could be quite
enlightening for all of us.

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