From Newsgroup: alt.tv.star-trek.tos
From Address: epwise{at}yahoo.com
Subject: Re: STAR TREK THE WRATH OF KHAN: was What Did You Watch?
2013-06-01 (Saturday)

David Johnston  wrote in news:koqph0$nlm$1{at}dont-
email.me:

> On 6/6/2013 1:24 PM, Wiseguy wrote:
>> David Johnston  wrote in news:koqn7g$9o0$1{at}dont-
>> email.me:
>>
>>> On 6/6/2013 1:16 PM, Wiseguy wrote:
>>>> David Johnston  wrote in
news:koqdop$hrh$2{at}dont-
>>>> email.me:
>>>>
>>>>> On 6/5/2013 11:35 PM, Wiseguy wrote:
>>>>>> David Johnston  wrote in
>>>>>> news:konjlt$u78$1{at}dont-email.me:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 6/5/2013 12:41 AM, Halmyre wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Jun 4, 5:06 pm, anim8rFSK
 wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In article
,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>      "Danie...{at}teranews.com"
 
wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Lewis wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> In message

>>>>>>>>>>>        Arthur Lipscomb
 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/2/2013 10:03 PM,
ToolPackinMama wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/2/2013 10:31 PM,
Arthur Lipscomb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Most of the other
characters were from TOS or just a 
random
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alien.  This guy
stands out because TOS had no cyborgs 
like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that on the Enterprise.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> TOS did have an
android on the Enterprise in one episode.
>> He
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wore a Starfleet
uniform and everything.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/imudd.htm
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Not entirely the same
thing.  Androids were clearly
>> established
>>>>>>>>>>>> in TOS, which made Data's
claims of uniqueness a little 
odd.
>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>>>> character in the movie is
humanoid with cybernetic implants
>>>> which
>>>>>>>>>>>> apparently (according to
online sources) have a direct 
neural
>>>>>>>>>>>> interface with the
Enterprise.  He's more Borg than 
Starfleet
>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> more advance than anything
Starfleet should have had during
>> TOS
>>>>>>>>>>>> (or even TNG).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Different History. Different
developments.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Lewis, I was going to give a
similar response to Arthur, up
>>>> thread,
>>>>>>>>>> along the lines of "Different
Timeline, so who knows what is
>>>>>>>>>> possible!!", but as this is
only a shout time 
(months/years??)
>>>>>>>>>> after the re-boot, is it really
likely that there would be a
>> Borg
>>>>>>>>>> in Starfleet??
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Daniel
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The history of the universe and basic
physics were already
>>>>>>>>> completely different in the first
movie when Nero first
>> appeared.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But the laws of physics are...erm, unchangeable...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I dunno about that.  The way warp drive works
changed between 
TOS
>>>> and
>>>>>>> TNG.  And that wasn't even supposed to be a
parallel universe.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They took place several decades apart.  Can't there be any
>>>> advancements
>>>>>> in what is a FICTIONAL universe?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't consider changing how speed is measured to a asymptotic
>> scale
>>>> to
>>>>> be an advancement.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You wrote: "The way warp drive works" not
"changing how speed is
>>>> measured to a asymptotic scale."
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, the speed of warp drive.
>>>
>>
>> Changing the way warp drive works is not just changing speed.
>> If all you meant was speed you should have said so in the first 
place.
>>
>> At any rate, an increase is speed can still be considered an
>> advancement.
>>
> 
> No.  Not changing speed.  Changing how speed is measured.  Early on in 
> TNG Roddenberry declared that Warp 10 would be the absolute speed 
limit 
> for warp drive in a vain attempt to fend off unlimited escalation of 
how 
> fast ships could go.  He did this even though the Kelvans in TOS had 
> already made ships go at Warp Factor 11.
> 
> Now the writers evaded the spirit of Roddenberry's decree while 
> conforming to the letter merely by declaring that Warp 10 is infinite 
> velocity and you become one with the speed force if you reach it.  
Then 
> you turn into a newt because witchcraft.
> 
> But what that means is that since Kelvans were going at warp factor 11 
> in TOS, and warp factor 10 is infinite velocity in TNG, warp factors 
in 
> the two series would be measuring two different things, like miles per 
> hour and knots, and calling them the same thing.  So it's not just 
> faster.  It's in a different way with different fundamental 
principles.
> 

The Kelvans used their own knowledge/technology to achieve Warp 11.

Anyway, it's all fiction.  There will always be inconsistencies in 
filmed fiction. Sometimes in the same episode.
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