From: "Rich" 

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   And so we come full circle.  Let's exclude what you pay to EDS or =
IBMGS even though it likely dwarfs the cost of the software.  You have =
still failed to refute or even respond to an annual subscription for red =
hat's solution costing more than four to six times the cost of a =
perpetual license for the Microsoft solution.

Rich

  "Adam Flinton"  wrote in message =
news:3e694375$1{at}w3.nls.net...

  EDS, IBMGS et al will hold the relationship with MS or Red Hat that's =
why
  you pay em.

  Adam



  "Rich"  wrote in message news:3e694186{at}w3.nls.net...
     Can you remind us why you replied to this thread if you have =
nothing to
  add?

  Rich

    "Adam Flinton"  wrote in message
  news:3e693e89$1{at}w3.nls.net...
    I'm not making any claims. I am stating what I know.

    Re support for a production web server...go ask Yahoo or Amazon what =
they
    pay. I could tell you about the ones I know such as ocado
    (http://www.ocado.com/) but frankly I'm not going to coz I don't =
have
  their
    permission to do so.

    Adam

    "Rich"  wrote in message news:3e6933f0{at}w3.nls.net...
       You are the one making claims.  Spell out the support level you =
believe
    is necessary for a production web server and the cost of this =
support.
    Remember we are discussing the claim that one solution is cheaper =
than
    another where Red Hat's price for their linux plus stronghold =
solution
  costs
    more than four to six times as much for a one year subscription than
  Windows
    Server 2003 Web Edition costs for a perpetual license.

    Rich

      "Adam Flinton"  wrote in message
    news:3e692e38{at}w3.nls.net...
      What? EDS/CapGem/IBM GS Support or direct support from the distrib
  owner?

      Adam

      "Rich"  wrote in message news:3e68c854{at}w3.nls.net...
         OK.  How much does this cost?

      Rich
        "Adam Flinton"  wrote in message
      news:3e6854e1{at}w3.nls.net...


        I don't know any major comp (there may be some, I jus don't know =
them)
      which
        relies directly upon MS for support. EDS yes...CapGemini yes, =
IBM GS
        yes....direct MS support?

        However I do know a couple which do have a direct channel into =
the
    distrib
        comp whose distrib they're using (in Europe Suse are especailly =
good
  at
        this).


        Adam


        Rich

          "Robert Comer"  wrote in message
        news:3e681017$1{at}w3.nls.net...
          >  Can you be specific instead of hot air and hand waving?

          I just stated my opinion, that's all. I'm not here to list out
      everything
          possible.

          >   It's well known that Linux has less functionality.

          I'm not so sure that can be said any more, but no matter I =
wasn't
  just
          talking overall OS functionality, but what you can do with =
that
    specific
          version of Windows Server -- with no Cal's, that means no NT
        authentication,
          files serving, or print serving, and I assume no domain
    capabilities --
          that's 4 areas that Windows is strong on and Linux needs to =
catch
  up,
      yet
        I
          can put together a Linux box that does all 5 of these things =
for a
  LOT
        less
          money.

          >If you want to roll your own it can cost less for Linux, =
assuming
    your
        time
          is worth >nothing.

          There's actually a decent amount of free support out there, =
and you
      don't
          have to roll your own version, you can use someone's =
distribution.

          >If you want to use a supported version, like from RedHat, =
expect to
      spend
          much more for your annual subscription.  They will sell you a
      subscription
          to red hat linux advanced server for $1499 per year.<

          I would *never* pay Red Hat that much, they don't have enough =
to
  offer
          support wise.  I have spent that much on Microsoft products =
several
      times
          over up to now, but things are a changin.  I might add that
  Microsoft
    is
          quite costly for aftermarket support and I don't buy that =
either.

          >If you want their supported enterprise level web server you =
are
  going
      to
          pay another $395 to $895 annually.  That's more than four to =
six
  times
        more
          expensive than the Windows Server 2003 solution.<

          I got it beat -- I have a server here at home (always =
learning) that
      cost
        $0
          for the Linux and about $200 for the hardware.  (I also have a =
Linux
        client
          PC here that I paid $99 for and I'm not going to do that =
again, at
    least
        not
          this distribution.)

          - Bob Comer



          "Rich"  wrote in message news:3e67d5e4$1{at}w3.nls.net...
             Can you be specific instead of hot air and hand waving?

             It's well known that Linux has less functionality.  If you =
want
  to
      roll
          your own it can cost less for Linux, assuming your time is =
worth
      nothing.
          If you want to use a supported version, like from RedHat, =
expect to
      spend
          much more for your annual subscription.  They will sell you a
      subscription
          to red hat linux advanced server for $1499 per year.  If you =
want
    their
          supported enterprise level web server you are going to pay =
another
    $395
      to
          $895 annually.  That's more than four to six times more =
expensive
  than
      the
          Windows Server 2003 solution.

          Rich

            "Robert Comer"  wrote in message
          news:3e67b7d1{at}w3.nls.net...
            Less functionality, higher cost. Ease of use is a draw, but =
it
  would
        have
          to be even cheaper just for a web server.

            - Bob Comer


              "Rich"  wrote in message news:3e67b63f{at}w3.nls.net...
                 By what criteria and how so?

              Rich

                "Robert Comer"  wrote in =
message
          news:3e67ae88$1{at}w3.nls.net...
                That's not good enough to compete with Linux.

                - Bob Comer


                "Geo."  wrote in message
          news:3e67a4e1$1{at}w3.nls.net...
                > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/61/29567.html
                >
                > There will be no price increases (as such) when =
Microsoft
    ships
        its
          next
                > server OS, Windows Server 2003, on April 24th, but =
there
  will
    be
      a
          new
                > budget-priced version of the product aimed squarely at =
the
  web
          server
                > market. Server 2003 Web Edition comes without client =
access
          licences, with
                a
                > 2gig limit on memory, 2-way SMP, and is $399.
                >
                >







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   And so we
come full =
circle. =20
Let's exclude what you pay to EDS or IBMGS even though it likely dwarfs = the cost=20
of the software.  You have still failed to refute or even respond = to an=20
annual subscription for red hat's solution costing more than four to six = times=20
the cost of a perpetual license for the Microsoft solution.
 
Rich
 

  "Adam Flinton" <adam{at}NOSPAMsoftfab.com>">mailto:adam{at}NOSPAMsoftfab.com">adam{at}NOSPAMsoftfab.com>
=
wrote in=20
  message news:3e694375$1{at}w3.nls.net...EDS,=20
  IBMGS et al will hold the relationship with MS or Red Hat that's =
whyyou=20
  pay
em.Adam"Rich"
<{at}> wrote in message =
news:3e694186{at}w3.nls.net...&nbs=
p; =20
  Can you remind us why you replied to this thread if you have nothing=20
  toadd?Rich 
"Adam Flinton" <adam{at}NOSPAMsoftfab.com>">mailto:adam{at}NOSPAMsoftfab.com">adam{at}NOSPAMsoftfab.com>
=
wrote in=20
  messagenews:3e693e89$1{at}w3.nls.net...=
 =20
  I'm not making any claims. I am stating what I
know.  Re =
support=20
  for a production web server...go ask Yahoo or Amazon what =
they  pay.=20
  I could tell you about the ones I know such as ocado  (http://www.ocado.com/;)">http://www.ocado.com/http://www.ocado.com/">http://www.ocado.com/;)
but frankly =
I'm not=20
  going to coz I don't havetheir  permission to do=20
  so.  Adam 
"Rich" <{at}> wrote in message =
news:3e6933f0{at}w3.nls.net...&nbs=
p;   =20
  You are the one making claims.  Spell out the support level you=20
  believe  is necessary for a production web server and the =
cost of=20
  this support.  Remember we are discussing the claim that one =
solution=20
  is cheaper than  another where Red Hat's price for their =
linux plus=20
  stronghold solutioncosts  more than four to
six times as =
much for=20
  a one year subscription thanWindows  Server 2003 Web =
Edition=20
  costs for a perpetual license.  =
Rich   =20
  "Adam Flinton" <adam{at}NOSPAMsoftfab.com>">mailto:adam{at}NOSPAMsoftfab.com">adam{at}NOSPAMsoftfab.com>
=
wrote in=20
  message  news:3e692e38{at}w3.nls.net...&nbs=
p;  =20
  What? EDS/CapGem/IBM GS Support or direct support from the=20
  distribowner?    =
Adam   =20
  "Rich" <{at}> wrote in message news:3e68c854{at}w3.nls.net...&nbs=
p;     =20
  OK.  How much does this
cost?   =20
  Rich     
"Adam Flinton" <adam{at}NOSPAMsoftfab.com>">mailto:adam{at}NOSPAMsoftfab.com">adam{at}NOSPAMsoftfab.com>
=
wrote in=20
  message    news:3e6854e1{at}w3.nls.net...=
     =20
  I don't know any major comp (there may be some, I jus don't know=20
  them)   
which      =
relies=20
  directly upon MS for support. EDS yes...CapGemini yes, IBM=20
  GS      yes....direct MS=20
 
support?     
However I do know a =
couple=20
  which do have a direct channel into the =20
  distrib      comp
whose distrib they're =
using (in=20
  Europe Suse are especailly =
goodat     =20
 
this).     =20
 
Adam     =20
 
Rich       
"Robert Comer" =
<bobcomer{at}mindspring.com>">mailto:bobcomer{at}mindspring.com">bobcomer{at}mindspring.com>
= wrote in=20
  message      news:3e681017$1{at}w3.nls.net...=
       =20
  >  Can you be specific instead of hot air and hand=20
 
waving?       
I just =
stated my=20
  opinion, that's all. I'm not here to list
out   =20
 
everything       =20
 
possible.       
=
>  =20
  It's well known that Linux has less=20
 
functionality.       
I'm =
not so=20
  sure that can be said any more, but no matter I=20
 
wasn'tjust       
talking =
overall=20
  OS functionality, but what you can do with that =20
 
specific       
version of =
Windows=20
  Server -- with no Cal's, that means no =
NT     =20
 
authentication,       
files =
serving,=20
  or print serving, and I assume no domain  capabilities=20
 
--       
that's 4 areas that =
Windows=20
  is strong on and Linux needs to
catchup,   =20
  yet     =20
 
I       
can put together a =
Linux box=20
  that does all 5 of these things for =
aLOT     =20
 
less       =20
 
money.       
>If you =
want to=20
  roll your own it can cost less for Linux, assuming =20
  your     =20
 
time       
is worth=20
 
>nothing.       
There's =

  actually a decent amount of free support out there, and=20
  you    =
don't       =20
  have to roll your own version, you can use someone's=20
 
distribution.       
>If =
you=20
  want to use a supported version, like from RedHat, expect=20
  to    =
spend       =20
  much more for your annual subscription.  They will sell you=20
  a   =20
 
subscription       
to red hat =
linux=20
  advanced server for $1499 per=20
 
year.<       
I would =
*never*=20
  pay Red Hat that much, they don't have enough=20
 
tooffer       
support =
wise. =20
  I have spent that much on Microsoft products =
several   =20
 
times       
over up to now, =
but things=20
  are a changin.  I might add thatMicrosoft =20
 
is       
quite costly for =
aftermarket=20
  support and I don't buy that=20
 
either.       
>If you =
want=20
  their supported enterprise level web server you=20
  aregoing   =20
 
to       
pay another $395 to =
$895=20
  annually.  That's more than four to=20
  sixtimes     =20
 
more       
expensive than the =
Windows=20
  Server 2003 =
solution.<       
I=20
  got it beat -- I have a server here at home (always learning)=20
  that   
cost     =20
 
$0       
for the Linux and =
about $200=20
  for the hardware.  (I also have a =
Linux     =20
 
client       
PC here that I =
paid $99=20
  for and I'm not going to do that again, at =20
  least     =20
 
not       
this=20
 
distribution.)       
- Bob =

 
Comer       
"Rich" =

  <{at}> wrote in message news:3e67d5e4$1{at}w3.nls.net...=
          =20
  Can you be specific instead of hot air and hand=20
  =
waving?         &nbs=
p;=20
  It's well known that Linux has less functionality.  If you=20
  wantto   =20
 
roll       
your own it can =
cost less=20
  for Linux, assuming your time is worth   =20
 
nothing.       
If you want to =
use a=20
  supported version, like from RedHat, expect
to   =20
 
spend       
much more for your =
annual=20
  subscription.  They will sell you
a   =20
 
subscription       
to red hat =
linux=20
  advanced server for $1499 per year.  If you want =20
 
their       
supported =
enterprise level=20
  web server you are going to pay another  =
$395   =20
 
to       
$895 annually.  =
That's=20
  more than four to six times more =
expensivethan   =20
 
the       
Windows Server 2003=20
 
solution.       =20
 
Rich         
=
"Robert=20
  Comer" <bobcomer{at}mindspring.com>">mailto:bobcomer{at}mindspring.com">bobcomer{at}mindspring.com>
= wrote in=20
 
message       
news:3e67b7d1{at}w3.nls.net...&nbs=
p;        =20
  Less functionality, higher cost. Ease of use is a draw, but=20
  itwould     =20
 
have       
to be even cheaper =
just for=20
  a web =
server.         
-=20
  Bob=20
  =
Comer         &n=
bsp; =20
  "Rich" <{at}> wrote in message news:3e67b63f{at}w3.nls.net...&nbs=
p;            =
; =20
  By what criteria and how=20
  =
so?          &n=
bsp;=20
  =
Rich          &=
nbsp;  =20
  "Robert Comer" <bobcomer{at}mindspring.com>">mailto:bobcomer{at}mindspring.com">bobcomer{at}mindspring.com>
= wrote in=20
 
message       
news:3e67ae88$1{at}w3.nls.net...=
            &=
nbsp;=20
  That's not good enough to compete with=20
  =
Linux.          =
;   =20
  - Bob=20
  =
Comer         &n=
bsp;   =20
  "Geo." <georger{at}nls.net>">mailto:georger{at}nls.net">georger{at}nls.net>
=
wrote in=20
 
message       
news:3e67a4e1$1{at}w3.nls.net...=
            &=
nbsp;=20
  > http://www.th" target="new">http://www.th=">http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/61/29567.html">http://www.th=
eregister.co.uk/content/61/29567.html    &nbs=
p;        =20
  =
>           =
;  =20
  > There will be no price increases (as such) when =
Microsoft =20
  ships     =20
 
its       =20
  =
next           =
;  =20
  > server OS, Windows Server 2003, on April 24th, but=20
  therewill 
be   =20
 
a       =20
  =
new           =
  =20
  > budget-priced version of the product aimed squarely at=20
 
theweb       =20
  =
server          &nb=
sp;  =20
  > market. Server 2003 Web Edition comes without client=20
 
access       
licences,=20
  =
with           =
;  =20
  =
a           &n=
bsp; =20
  > 2gig limit on memory, 2-way SMP, and is=20
  =
$399.          &nbs=
p;  =20
  =
>           =
;  =20
 
>

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