From: "Rich" 

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   Can you remind us why you replied to this thread if you have nothing =
to add?

Rich

  "Adam Flinton"  wrote in message =
news:3e693e89$1{at}w3.nls.net...
  I'm not making any claims. I am stating what I know.

  Re support for a production web server...go ask Yahoo or Amazon what =
they
  pay. I could tell you about the ones I know such as ocado
  (http://www.ocado.com/) but frankly I'm not going to coz I don't have =
their
  permission to do so.

  Adam

  "Rich"  wrote in message news:3e6933f0{at}w3.nls.net...
     You are the one making claims.  Spell out the support level you =
believe
  is necessary for a production web server and the cost of this support.
  Remember we are discussing the claim that one solution is cheaper than
  another where Red Hat's price for their linux plus stronghold solution =
costs
  more than four to six times as much for a one year subscription than =
Windows
  Server 2003 Web Edition costs for a perpetual license.

  Rich

    "Adam Flinton"  wrote in message
  news:3e692e38{at}w3.nls.net...
    What? EDS/CapGem/IBM GS Support or direct support from the distrib =
owner?

    Adam

    "Rich"  wrote in message news:3e68c854{at}w3.nls.net...
       OK.  How much does this cost?

    Rich
      "Adam Flinton"  wrote in message
    news:3e6854e1{at}w3.nls.net...


      I don't know any major comp (there may be some, I jus don't know =
them)
    which
      relies directly upon MS for support. EDS yes...CapGemini yes, IBM =
GS
      yes....direct MS support?

      However I do know a couple which do have a direct channel into the
  distrib
      comp whose distrib they're using (in Europe Suse are especailly =
good at
      this).


      Adam


      Rich

        "Robert Comer"  wrote in message
      news:3e681017$1{at}w3.nls.net...
        >  Can you be specific instead of hot air and hand waving?

        I just stated my opinion, that's all. I'm not here to list out
    everything
        possible.

        >   It's well known that Linux has less functionality.

        I'm not so sure that can be said any more, but no matter I =
wasn't just
        talking overall OS functionality, but what you can do with that
  specific
        version of Windows Server -- with no Cal's, that means no NT
      authentication,
        files serving, or print serving, and I assume no domain
  capabilities --
        that's 4 areas that Windows is strong on and Linux needs to =
catch up,
    yet
      I
        can put together a Linux box that does all 5 of these things for =
a LOT
      less
        money.

        >If you want to roll your own it can cost less for Linux, =
assuming
  your
      time
        is worth >nothing.

        There's actually a decent amount of free support out there, and =
you
    don't
        have to roll your own version, you can use someone's =
distribution.

        >If you want to use a supported version, like from RedHat, =
expect to
    spend
        much more for your annual subscription.  They will sell you a
    subscription
        to red hat linux advanced server for $1499 per year.<

        I would *never* pay Red Hat that much, they don't have enough to =
offer
        support wise.  I have spent that much on Microsoft products =
several
    times
        over up to now, but things are a changin.  I might add that =
Microsoft
  is
        quite costly for aftermarket support and I don't buy that =
either.

        >If you want their supported enterprise level web server you are =
going
    to
        pay another $395 to $895 annually.  That's more than four to six =
times
      more
        expensive than the Windows Server 2003 solution.<

        I got it beat -- I have a server here at home (always learning) =
that
    cost
      $0
        for the Linux and about $200 for the hardware.  (I also have a =
Linux
      client
        PC here that I paid $99 for and I'm not going to do that again, =
at
  least
      not
        this distribution.)

        - Bob Comer



        "Rich"  wrote in message news:3e67d5e4$1{at}w3.nls.net...
           Can you be specific instead of hot air and hand waving?

           It's well known that Linux has less functionality.  If you =
want to
    roll
        your own it can cost less for Linux, assuming your time is worth
    nothing.
        If you want to use a supported version, like from RedHat, expect =
to
    spend
        much more for your annual subscription.  They will sell you a
    subscription
        to red hat linux advanced server for $1499 per year.  If you =
want
  their
        supported enterprise level web server you are going to pay =
another
  $395
    to
        $895 annually.  That's more than four to six times more =
expensive than
    the
        Windows Server 2003 solution.

        Rich

          "Robert Comer"  wrote in message
        news:3e67b7d1{at}w3.nls.net...
          Less functionality, higher cost. Ease of use is a draw, but it =
would
      have
        to be even cheaper just for a web server.

          - Bob Comer


            "Rich"  wrote in message news:3e67b63f{at}w3.nls.net...
               By what criteria and how so?

            Rich

              "Robert Comer" 
wrote in message
        news:3e67ae88$1{at}w3.nls.net...
              That's not good enough to compete with Linux.

              - Bob Comer


              "Geo."  wrote in message
        news:3e67a4e1$1{at}w3.nls.net...
              > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/61/29567.html
              >
              > There will be no price increases (as such) when =
Microsoft
  ships
      its
        next
              > server OS, Windows Server 2003, on April 24th, but there =
will
  be
    a
        new
              > budget-priced version of the product aimed squarely at =
the web
        server
              > market. Server 2003 Web Edition comes without client =
access
        licences, with
              a
              > 2gig limit on memory, 2-way SMP, and is $399.
              >
              >






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   Can you
remind us why you =
replied to=20
this thread if you have nothing to add?
 
Rich
 

  "Adam Flinton" <adam{at}NOSPAMsoftfab.com>">mailto:adam{at}NOSPAMsoftfab.com">adam{at}NOSPAMsoftfab.com>
=
wrote in=20
  message news:3e693e89$1{at}w3.nls.net...I'm=20
  not making any claims. I am stating what I know.Re
support for =
a=20
  production web server...go ask Yahoo or Amazon what theypay. I =
could tell=20
  you about the ones I know such as ocado(http://www.ocado.com/;)">http://www.ocado.com/http://www.ocado.com/">http://www.ocado.com/;)
but frankly =
I'm not=20
  going to coz I don't have theirpermission to do=20
  so.Adam"Rich"
<{at}> wrote in message news:3e6933f0{at}w3.nls.net...&nbs=
p; =20
  You are the one making claims.  Spell out the support level you=20
  believeis necessary for a production web server and the cost of =
this=20
  support.Remember we are discussing the claim that one solution is =
cheaper=20
  thananother where Red Hat's price for their linux plus stronghold =
solution=20
  costsmore than four to six times as much for a one year =
subscription than=20
  WindowsServer 2003 Web Edition costs for a perpetual=20
  license.Rich  "Adam
Flinton" <adam{at}NOSPAMsoftfab.com>">mailto:adam{at}NOSPAMsoftfab.com">adam{at}NOSPAMsoftfab.com>
=
wrote in=20
  messagenews:3e692e38{at}w3.nls.net...&nbs=
p;=20
  What? EDS/CapGem/IBM GS Support or direct support from the distrib=20
  owner?  Adam 
"Rich" <{at}> wrote in =
message news:3e68c854{at}w3.nls.net...&nbs=
p;   =20
  OK.  How much does this cost?  =
Rich   =20
  "Adam Flinton" <adam{at}NOSPAMsoftfab.com>">mailto:adam{at}NOSPAMsoftfab.com">adam{at}NOSPAMsoftfab.com>
=
wrote in=20
  message  news:3e6854e1{at}w3.nls.net...=
   =20
  I don't know any major comp (there may be some, I jus don't know=20
  them)  which   
relies directly upon MS =
for=20
  support. EDS yes...CapGemini yes, IBM GS    =
yes....direct=20
  MS support?    However I
do know a couple which =
do have=20
  a direct channel into
thedistrib    comp whose =
distrib=20
  they're using (in Europe Suse are especailly good =
at   =20
  this).    =
Adam   =20
 
Rich     
"Robert Comer" <bobcomer{at}mindspring.com>">mailto:bobcomer{at}mindspring.com">bobcomer{at}mindspring.com>
= wrote in=20
  message    news:3e681017$1{at}w3.nls.net...=
     =20
  >  Can you be specific instead of hot air and hand=20
 
waving?     
I just stated my =
opinion, that's=20
  all. I'm not here to list out =20
  everything     =20
 
possible.     
>   It's =
well=20
  known that Linux has less =
functionality.     =20
  I'm not so sure that can be said any more, but no matter I wasn't=20
  just      talking
overall OS =
functionality, but=20
  what you can do with =
thatspecific     =20
  version of Windows Server -- with no Cal's, that means no=20
  NT    =
authentication,     =20
  files serving, or print serving, and I assume no =
domaincapabilities=20
  --      that's 4
areas that Windows is =
strong on=20
  and Linux needs to catch up, 
yet   =20
  I      can put
together a Linux box that =
does all=20
  5 of these things for a LOT   =20
  less     =20
 
money.     
>If you want to roll =
your own=20
  it can cost less for Linux,
assumingyour   =20
  time      is worth=20
 
>nothing.     
There's actually a =
decent=20
  amount of free support out there, and you =20
  don't      have to
roll your own version, =
you can=20
  use someone's
distribution.     
=
>If you=20
  want to use a supported version, like from RedHat, expect to  =

  spend      much
more for your annual=20
  subscription.  They will sell you a =20
  subscription     
to red hat linux =
advanced=20
  server for $1499 per
year.<     
I =
would=20
  *never* pay Red Hat that much, they don't have enough to=20
  offer      support
wise.  I have =
spent that=20
  much on Microsoft products several =20
  times      over up
to now, but things are =
a=20
  changin.  I might add that=20
 
Microsoftis     
quite costly for =
aftermarket=20
  support and I don't buy that =
either.     =20
  >If you want their supported enterprise level web server you are=20
  going 
to      pay another
$395 =
to $895=20
  annually.  That's more than four to six =
times   =20
  more     
expensive than the Windows =
Server 2003=20
 
solution.<     
I got it beat -- I =
have a=20
  server here at home (always learning) that =20
  cost   
$0      for =
the Linux=20
  and about $200 for the hardware.  (I also have a=20
  Linux   
client      =
PC here=20
  that I paid $99 for and I'm not going to do that again,=20
  atleast    =
not      this=20
 
distribution.)     
- Bob=20
 
Comer     
"Rich" <{at}> =
wrote in=20
  message news:3e67d5e4$1{at}w3.nls.net...=
        =20
  Can you be specific instead of hot air and hand=20
 
waving?        
It's =
well=20
  known that Linux has less functionality.  If you want =
to =20
  roll      your own
it can cost less for =
Linux,=20
  assuming your time is worth =20
  nothing.      If
you want to use a =
supported=20
  version, like from RedHat, expect to =20
  spend      much
more for your annual=20
  subscription.  They will sell you a =20
  subscription     
to red hat linux =
advanced=20
  server for $1499 per year.  If you=20
 
wanttheir     
supported enterprise =
level web=20
  server you are going to pay another$395 =20
  to      $895
annually.  That's more =
than=20
  four to six times more expensive than =20
  the      Windows
Server 2003=20
  solution.     =20
 
Rich       
"Robert Comer" =
<bobcomer{at}mindspring.com>">mailto:bobcomer{at}mindspring.com">bobcomer{at}mindspring.com>
= wrote in=20
  message      news:3e67b7d1{at}w3.nls.net...&nbs=
p;      =20
  Less functionality, higher cost. Ease of use is a draw, but it=20
  would   
have      to =
be even=20
  cheaper just for a web=20
 
server.       
- Bob=20
  =
Comer         
= "Rich"=20
  <{at}> wrote in message news:3e67b63f{at}w3.nls.net...&nbs=
p;           =20
  By what criteria and how=20
 
so?         =20
  =
Rich          &=
nbsp;=20
  "Robert Comer" <bobcomer{at}mindspring.com>">mailto:bobcomer{at}mindspring.com">bobcomer{at}mindspring.com>
= wrote in=20
  message      news:3e67ae88$1{at}w3.nls.net...=
           =20
  That's not good enough to compete with=20
  =
Linux.          =
; =20
  - Bob=20
  =
Comer         &n=
bsp; =20
  "Geo." <georger{at}nls.net>">mailto:georger{at}nls.net">georger{at}nls.net>
=
wrote in=20
  message      news:3e67a4e1$1{at}w3.nls.net...=
           =20
  > http://www.th" target="new">http://www.th=">http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/61/29567.html">http://www.th=
eregister.co.uk/content/61/29567.html    &nbs=
p;      =20
  =
>           =
;=20
  > There will be no price increases (as such) when=20
  Microsoftships    =
its     =20
  =
next           =
;=20
  > server OS, Windows Server 2003, on April 24th, but there=20
  willbe 
a     =20
  =
new           =
 >=20
  budget-priced version of the product aimed squarely at the=20
  web     =20
  =
server          &nb=
sp;=20
  > market. Server 2003 Web Edition comes without client=20
  access      licences,=20
  =
with           =
;=20
  =
a           
=
>=20
  2gig limit on memory, 2-way SMP, and is=20
  =
$399.          &nbs=
p;=20
  =
>           =
;=20
 
>

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